Lenny速读：AI 没先抢饭碗，先把工作压强拉满了

本期 Lenny's Podcast 做的不是一场「AI 会不会取代我」的泛泛讨论，而是把这个问题拆成一份年度体检：约 6000 名科技从业者怎样看待自己的工作、职业未来、AI、裁员和 burnout。嘉宾 Noam Segal 曾在 Airbnb、Intercom、Twitter、Meta、Zapier、Figma 等公司做研究负责人，和 Lenny Rachitsky 合作连续第二年做 Tech Worker Sentiment Survey；这一期就是围绕 2026 年调查结果逐条拆解。1

最值得注意的是，节目没有把结论落在「大家都怕 AI 抢饭碗」上。真正的主线是：AI 正在把科技工作者分成两种现实，一边觉得自己被放大、变强、重新爱上创造；另一边觉得角色边界塌了、专业价值被削弱、工作压强被继续往上拧。调查报告把它概括成「a workforce splitting in two」。2

2026 年科技从业者对 AI 的最大焦虑，不是「AI 明天替我上岗」，而是「AI 让我今天必须用同样工资做更多、更快、更杂的工作」。调查里只有 22% 的人担心「losing my job to AI」，但 51% 担心「被期待以同样薪酬做更多」，46% 担心节奏变得不可持续，41% 担心工作质量下降。2

这让本期的情绪很复杂：不是单纯悲观，也不是单纯乐观。82% 的受访者说 AI 已经让自己至少「中等程度」变得更能干，接近一半说是「非常」或「极其」有帮助；但同一批人又在谈 burn out、质量下滑、判断力变钝和职业入口变窄。2

Noam 认为，今年最强的解释变量不是你是工程师、PM、设计师，还是你在大公司或小公司，而是 AI 怎样改变了你对「我是一个什么样的专业人士」的感觉。调查把这个问题拆成五个答案：

这组数字重要，不只是因为接近一半的人站在正面，另一半站在模糊或负面；更重要的是，它和其他职业感受高度联动。报告说，从「amplified」走向「diminished」时，职业乐观度一路坍塌，burnout、裁员焦虑和不愿推荐本行业的倾向一路上升；AI 身份感对职业乐观的预测强度，甚至超过角色、职级和公司规模的组合。2

换句话说，2026 年问一个科技工作者「你做什么」已经不够了。更关键的问题变成：「AI 让你更像自己，还是更不像自己？」

节目里 Noam 进一步把受访者按情绪聚类成四类人。这个分类比「乐观派 / 悲观派」更接近现实，因为很多人不是选边站，而是同时兴奋和疲惫。

第一类是 Energized，占 41%。他们把 AI 当成「超能力」，觉得产品和创造重新变好玩，像进入一个技术游乐园。报告中的典型表达是：「Product has become fun again」。2

第二类是 Conflicted，占 35%。他们一边觉得自己作为 builder 前所未有地开心，一边又前所未有地不确定：现在学的东西、搭的东西，会不会正把自己熟悉的职业形态推向终点。2

第三类是 Disoriented，占 12%。他们不是拒绝 AI，而是觉得角色变化太快，脚下没有固定地面。节目里引用的比喻很准确：像站在工业革命前夜的农民，知道旧路可能要变，却看不清新路在哪里。1

第四类是 Resentful，占 12%。这类人已经把 AI 和压力、强制、疲惫绑定在一起。他们听到的不是「新工具让你更自由」，而是「不用 AI 就会失业」；更糟的是，即使用了 AI，裁员仍然发生。2

Lenny 在这里补了一句很有用的提醒：如果你正处在 energized 组，很容易低估另一半人的痛苦；如果你正处在 disoriented 或 resentful 组，也很难相信真有人在此刻玩得很开心。本期最像一次情绪校准：别把自己的状态误当成全行业的状态。

调查显示，显著 burnout 从 2025 年的 44.7% 上升到 2026 年的 55.7%；职业乐观度从 54.8% 降到 48.7%。报告还说，26.2% 的受访者已经「非常」或「完全」burned out。2

这里的关键细节是：工作享受感并没有同步崩掉。42.6% 的受访者仍然「非常」或「极其」享受自己的工作，另有 36.7% 说自己中等程度享受。2

Noam 对这个矛盾的解释是，享受、burnout 和乐观其实是三件不同的事：享受来自工作本身，burnout 来自节奏，乐观来自你对未来方向的判断。你可以仍然喜欢创造、喜欢解决问题、喜欢用 AI 把想法做出来，同时被不断上升的速度和不确定性榨干。

节目里有一个很形象的对比：过去的 burnout 可能来自停滞，努力很多但事情不动；现在的 burnout 可能来自过度运动，PR、PRD、原型、campaign、agent、广告都变多了，速度变快了，人却没有少用力。1

这一期最值得划线的转折，是「replacement」叙事被「squeeze」叙事取代。外部舆论总喜欢问「AI 会不会抢走工作」，但受访科技工作者给出的答案更现实：他们当然也怕裁员，41.2% 至少中等程度担心未来一年被裁，19.9% 非常或极其担心；但他们并不主要把 AI 视作直接替代自己的机器。2

真正排在前面的恐惧是：公司把 AI 带来的速度提升直接折算成更高产出期待。报告里那句话很狠：AI 解锁的速度被重新投入到期待里，每一次效率收益都会变成新的基线，而需要达到这条基线的人，正在失去呼吸空间。2

这也解释了为什么「AI 接管我部分工作」和「我担心被裁」之间相关性几乎为零，报告给出的相关系数是 r = +0.05。人们不是不怕裁员，而是不认为焦虑只来自「某个任务被自动化」；焦虑来自组织把自动化变成了新工作量标准。2

Noam 说，今年对他最有意思的一点，是人们口中的「AI 让我做得更好」拆开之后，其实常常意味着「我做得更快、更多」，而不是「质量更高」。节目里他总结了两层代价：第一，AI 降低了产出的地板，让 PR、PRD、研究项目、原型都能更快出来；第二，更深的代价发生在思考和判断上。1

报告里的开放回答很直接：「I can do more, faster, but not better.」另一个更刺耳的表达是：「My brain is rotting. My work feels worse.」2

这里的术语可以叫「skill atrophy」或「cognitive rot」：当你看到模型的第一版输出就接受，不再施加自己的判断和推理，你的能力基线会慢慢下降。Noam 的说法是，每一次你自己跨过问题，都会提高自我效能感；每一次把问题完全外包给模型，你的思考和判断都在旁边看着这件事发生。1

这不是反 AI，而是提醒：AI 可以降低地板，但不自动抬高天花板。地板降低，意味着更多人可以把东西做出来；天花板抬高，仍然依赖品味、判断、问题定义、研究和设计。

报告把焦虑最集中的角色指向设计师和研究员。研究员中，51% 表示对工作安全感焦虑；设计师中，63% 觉得变化节奏令人不堪重负，61% 觉得疲惫。研究员也是最担心「失去工作给 AI」的群体之一，设计师则最担心「同样薪酬下被期待做更多」。2

Noam 自己来自研究社区，所以他没有把这个结论解读成「设计和研究要消失」。相反，他认为越是在 AI 降低生产门槛的阶段，越需要研究和设计去提高上限：什么问题值得做、什么体验有质量、什么产品不是 AI slop，这些判断不会因为原型变便宜就自动出现。1

初级员工的问题则更像「梯子底部在消失」。节目里借 Cognition 的 Devin 做了一个比喻：工具能力从高中 CS 学生、大学实习生、初级工程师往上爬，当 AI 逐级爬梯子时，越站在底部的人越会感觉脚下横档被抽走。1

这也是为什么许多已经在行业里的人会说「我自己还行，但不建议新人进来」。报告给出的职业推荐 NPS 是 -39，超过一半受访者会劝新人避开自己的角色。2

如果只看可行动的部分，本期最具体的结论是：经理质量仍然极其重要。报告说，manager effectiveness 仍是 burnout 的最强驱动因素，也是其他职业感受的强驱动因素之一；有极高效经理的人，工作享受感大约高 65%，burnout 显著更低。2

问题是供给不足。只有 25.5% 的科技工作者把自己的经理评为高效，36.5% 认为经理无效。2

节目里 Noam 把这件事和 AI 时代的「挤压」连起来：谁最能保护你不被无限加速的产出要求吞掉？通常就是你的经理。经理决定目标如何切、优先级如何排、scope 怎么重新校准，也决定团队能不能把「AI 让我们更快」翻译成健康的工作方式，而不是简单翻译成更多任务。1

给个人的建议不是「马上成为全栈通才」，反而是先挑少数具体任务深挖。Noam 观察到，被 AI 放大、感觉 energized 的人，往往不是把 AI 撒到所有事情上，而是在特定 job-to-be-done 上做深。对于个人来说，这比追逐每个新模型、新框架、新用法更可持续。1

第二，注意「squeeze」。如果你的工作范围因为 AI 变大，产出期待变高，但薪酬、资源和优先级没有跟上，需要主动和经理重新校准。节目里也建议使用 burnout 测试，先判断自己处在什么状态，再决定是找 coach、找经理谈，还是争取休息。1

第三，维护和经理的关系，尤其是学会 manage up。这个建议听起来朴素，但和调查数据直接相连：在 AI 把节奏、角色和边界都搅动起来的时候，经理关系可能比你多试十个工具更影响你的身心状态。1

第四，如果你在职业早期，不要只学会「叫 AI 做」，还要找愿意训练你的团队和导师。Noam 提醒，公司也不能让梯子底部腐烂：初级员工可能最 AI-native，但他们仍然需要被培养，否则行业会失去新人真正成长的入口。1

给公司的建议同样直接：投资经理，管理产出挤压，保护新人培养路径，并特别关注设计、研究、数据分析等更负面的角色。AI 在抬起一部分人，也在动摇另一部分人；把所有员工都当成同一种「AI adoption」对象，会漏掉真正的组织风险。1

如果你只想看数字，调查报告本身更密集；如果你想理解这些数字背后的心理结构，这期节目值得听。它的价值在于把 AI 讨论从「工具能力」拉回「人的状态」：有人像进了游乐园，有人像站在被抽掉横档的梯子上，更多人则在两种感觉之间来回摆动。

我会把本期的核心问题概括成一句话：当 AI 把每个人的产出上限往上推，组织有没有同样认真地重写节奏、培养和管理方式？如果没有，所谓的效率红利很可能会先变成 burnout 红利。

说明：以下英文原文来自本期 Substack/节目页面提供的完整转录文件；中文为逐段对照翻译。原文保留节目转录中的广告、片头和片尾内容。讲话人按转录文件中的分轨整理；片头预告中的短句可能来自节目剪辑。

Bad news for the tech community.

中文：对于科技界来说是个坏消息。

Burnout at work is a major problem and AI could add to this already overwhelmed employee problem.

中文：工作倦怠是一个主要问题，而人工智能可能会加剧这个已经不堪重负的员工问题。

The honeymoon period with AI is over. When people are asked, "What are you afraid of?" losing my job to AI is actually second to last. What we saw rise up to the top is the expectation to do more for the same pay.

中文：与人工智能的蜜月期已经结束。当人们被问到：「你害怕什么？」由于人工智能而失去工作实际上是倒数第二个。我们看到上升到最高层的是期望以相同的薪水做更多的事情。

We did this survey on how people are feeling in tech right now. Burnout is increasing significantly. Optimism is declining. It's never been crazier.

中文：我们针对人们目前对科技的感受进行了这项调查。倦怠正在显着增加。乐观情绪正在下降。从来没有这么疯狂过。

When are we going to get to the optimistic parts of this episode? Half of the people in tech are feeling incredible, and the other half... Then she told us, "My brain is rotting. My work feels worse."

中文：我们什么时候才能看到这一集的乐观部分？科技行业的一半人感觉不可思议，另一半……然后她告诉我们，「我的大脑正在腐烂。我的工作感觉更糟。」

Elon had this really interesting way of describing it. We're definitely living in a simulation if we are alive right now, when we're about to start building data centers in space and AI is going to be as smart as human. What does this tell us we should be doing, if we can do anything?

中文：埃隆用一种非常有趣的方式来描述它。如果我们现在还活着，那么当我们即将开始在太空中建立数据中心并且人工智能将像人类一样聪明时，我们肯定生活在模拟中。如果我们能做点什么的话，这告诉我们应该做什么？

We're in the second inning of a massive shift. No one knows how it will end, but all you can do is...

中文：我们正处于巨大转变的第二局。没有人知道它会如何结束，但你所能做的就是......

Today, my guest is Noam Segel. Noam and I go a long ways back. We worked together at Airbnb for many years where he was my research partner. Since then, he went on to be a research leader at Intercom, Twitter, Wealthfront, Meta, Zapier, and Figma.

中文：今天，我的嘉宾是诺姆·席格尔。诺姆和我很久以前就认识了。我们在 Airbnb 共事多年，他是我的研究伙伴。此后，他继续担任 Intercom、Twitter、Wealthfront、Meta、Zapier 和 Figma 的研究负责人。

Noam is so amazing. And over the past couple years, I've been lucky to partner with him on a bunch of research projects, the most ambitious of which has been a tech worker sentiment survey, which we plan to run every year. This is the second time we've run it, and the results are so interesting. I believe this is the largest survey of its kind, looking at how people in tech feel about their jobs and AI and layoffs and burnout, and the future of their careers. There's so much in this, and basically this episode is a conversation about the results.

中文：诺姆真是太神奇了。在过去的几年里，我很幸运能与他合作开展一系列研究项目，其中最雄心勃勃的是一项技术工人情绪调查，我们计划每年进行一次。这是我们第二次运行它，结果非常有趣。我相信这是同类调查中规模最大的一次，旨在了解科技行业的人们对他们的工作、人工智能、裁员和职业倦怠以及职业未来的看法。这里面有很多内容，基本上这一集是关于结果的对话。

At the end of the conversation, we go through a bunch of advice on what you might do if you are currently on the struggle bus, and trying to figure out what to do. I'm so excited for this episode. I'm so excited for this report. A big thank you to Noam for doing the work to create the survey, run the survey, analyze the survey, and write the post that we will link to. It is so good.

中文：在对话结束时，我们会针对您目前正处于困境中时可能采取的措施提供一系列建议，并尝试找出该怎么做。我对这一集感到非常兴奋。我对这份报告感到非常兴奋。非常感谢 Noam 为创建调查、运行调查、分析调查以及撰写我们将链接到的帖子所做的工作。真是太好了。

Before we get into it, do not forget to check out lennysproductpass.com for a free year of the hottest and most well-crafted AI products in the world available exclusively to Lenny's newsletter subscribers. With that, I bring you Noam Segal.

中文：在我们开始讨论之前，不要忘记访问 lennysproductpass.com，享受一年免费的世界上最热门、最精心制作的人工智能产品，这些产品专供 Lenny 的时事通讯订阅者使用。接下来，我为您带来诺姆·西格尔。

Noam, thank you so much for being here and welcome to the podcast.

中文：诺姆，非常感谢您来到这里，欢迎来到播客。

Thank you so much, Lenny. It's such an incredible experience to be here. Thanks for having me.

中文：非常感谢你，莱尼。来到这里真是一次难以置信的经历。谢谢你有我。

It's my pleasure. We've actually worked together for a long time, and a few people know this. You were the researcher on our team when I was at Airbnb. It was like 10 years ago.

中文：这是我的荣幸。我们实际上已经合作了很长时间，而且很少有人知道这一点。我在 Airbnb 时，您是我们团队的研究员。就像 10 年前一样。

Oh, decades ago. A decade ago, Lenny. So much has changed.

中文：哦，几十年前了。十年前，莱尼.变化如此之大。

So much has changed.

中文：变化如此之大。

So much has changed.

中文：变化如此之大。

Which is a great segue to what we're going to be talking about today, which is we did this survey on how people are feeling in tech right now. It's never been crazier. And so, we did this report on just how are people feeling?

中文：这是我们今天要讨论的内容的一个很好的延续，我们对人们现在对科技的感受进行了调查。从来没有这么疯狂过。因此，我们做了这份关于人们感受如何的报告？

And this is the second time we've done this. We ran this a year ago. An idea here is we're going to have this yearly tech sentiment survey that's going to track how tech people are feeling.

中文：这是我们第二次这样做。我们一年前就运行过这个。这里的一个想法是，我们将进行年度科技情绪调查，以跟踪科技人员的感受。

Before we get into the takeaways, give us a little context just on this survey, how you ran it, what were we looking at? Anything people need to know?

中文：在我们进入要点之前，请先给我们介绍一下这项调查的背景信息，你们是如何进行调查的，我们在看什么？人们需要知道什么吗？

Yeah, so to your point, this is the second time we're running this survey, which I really feel is unique in the tech industry. I appreciate you for giving me the opportunity and giving us an opportunity, as a community, to learn more about how we're all feeling in tech. I'm not aware of any survey like this, at this scale,

中文：是的，就你的观点而言，这是我们第二次进行这项调查，我真的觉得这在科技行业是独一无二的。我感谢您给我这个机会，也让我们作为一个社区有机会更多地了解我们对科技的感受。我不知道有任何这样的调查，规模如此之大，

Looking at these things. Last year when we ran the similar tech sentiment, the first inaugural tech sentiment survey, the title was Burnt Out But Optimistic. We were seeing fairly high levels of burnout, but also fairly good levels of optimism about where things are going.

中文：看着这些东西。去年，当我们进行类似的科技情绪调查时，这是第一个首次科技情绪调查，标题是「精疲力尽但乐观」。我们看到了相当高的倦怠程度，但也看到了对事情进展的相当乐观的程度。

And we actually followed up on the burnout point and we created the Armor Framework, if you remember. And I'm really glad we did that.

中文：如果你还记得的话，我们实际上跟进了倦怠点，并创建了 Armor 框架。我真的很高兴我们这么做了。

This year we surveyed about 6000 people from product, engineering, design, research, pretty much any role, marketing, pretty much any role in tech. And the results were very interesting. So I'm very excited to jump into them.

中文：今年，我们调查了大约 6000 名人员，他们来自产品、工程、设计、研究、几乎任何职位、营销、几乎任何技术职位。结果非常有趣。所以我很高兴能加入其中。

Yeah, just remember when you shared the first draft of the analysis, I was just reading it. I was like, "Holy shit, this is so interesting." And it just feels like it's putting words to the way I feel, the way that I hear a lot of people feel. So I'm really excited that we're doing this.

中文：是的，请记住，当您分享分析的初稿时，我正在阅读它。我当时想，「天哪，这太有趣了。」感觉就像是用言语表达了我的感受，我听到很多人的感受。所以我对我们这样做感到非常兴奋。

This episode is brought to you by our seasons presenting sponsor, WorkOS. What do OpenAI, Anthropic, Cursor, Vercel, Replit, Sierra, Clay, and hundreds of other winning companies all have in common? They are all powered by WorkOS. If you're building a product for the enterprise, you felt the pain of integrating single sign-on, skim, RBAC, audit logs, and other features required by large companies. WorkOS turns those deal blockers into drop-in APIs with a modern developer platform built specifically for B2B SaaS.

中文：本集由我们的季节节目赞助商 WorkOS 为您带来。 OpenAI、Anthropic、Cursor、Vercel、Replit、Sierra、Clay 以及其他数百家获奖公司有什么共同点？它们均由 WorkOS 提供支持。如果您正在为企业构建产品，您会感受到集成单点登录、浏览、RBAC、审核日志和大公司所需的其他功能的痛苦。 WorkOS 通过专为 B2B SaaS 构建的现代开发者平台将这些交易阻碍因素转变为嵌入式 API。

Literally every startup that I'm an investor in, that starts to expand upmarket, ends up working with WorkOS, and that's because they are the best. Whether you are a seed stage startup trying to land your first enterprise customer or a unicorn expanding globally, WorkOS is the fastest path to becoming enterprise ready and unblocking growth. It's essentially Stripe for enterprise features. Visit workos.com to get started, or just hit up their Slack where they have actual engineers waiting to answer your questions.

中文：从字面上看，我投资的每家初创公司都开始拓展高端市场，最终都与 WorkOS 合作，因为它们是最好的。无论您是试图吸引第一个企业客户的种子期初创公司，还是在全球范围内扩张的独角兽，WorkOS 都是为企业做好准备并畅通增长的最快途径。它本质上是用于企业功能的 Stripe。请访问 workos.com 开始使用，或者直接访问他们的 Slack，那里有真正的工程师等待回答您的问题。

WorkOS allows you to build faster with delightful APIs, comprehensive docs, and a smooth developer experience. Go to workos.com to make your app enterprise ready today.

中文：WorkOS 允许您通过令人愉悦的 API、全面的文档和流畅的开发人员体验更快地构建。立即访问 workos.com 让您的应用程序企业做好准备。

We're going to go through the top 10 takeaways. What's the big picture takeaway from the report overall, if someone could take one big takeaway away?

中文：我们将讨论十大要点。如果有人能从这份报告中得出一个重要结论，那么该报告的总体结论是什么？

Well, first I'll say that you and I both noticed an incredible post from Elena Werner a couple of days before this pod was recorded. And, she's talking about the AI confidence theater, and how in conversations these days in tech, everything is dead, first of all. Engine coding is dead, design is dead, SaaS is dead, et cetera. Obviously that's not true.

中文：好吧，首先我要说的是，在录制这个 Pod 的前几天，你和我都注意到了 Elena Werner 发布的一篇令人难以置信的帖子。而且，她谈论的是人工智能信心剧场，以及如今在科技领域的对话中，首先，一切都已死了。引擎编码已死，设计已死，SaaS 已死，等等。显然这不是真的。

So what you're about to see in these results is the best picture we could provide, and probably the best picture anyone's provided so far, of how people are really feeling about AI.

中文：因此，您将在这些结果中看到的是我们可以提供的最好的图片，也可能是迄今为止任何人提供的最好的图片，说明人们对人工智能的真实感受。

And to me, this also ties to the fact that, if you're watching this and you work in tech, you probably answer some sort of biannual culture Amp style survey about how you are feeling, but the questions don't really dive any deeper than the effectiveness of your manager or leadership at the company you work at.

中文：对我来说，这也与这样一个事实有关：如果你正在观看这个节目并且你在科技行业工作，你可能会回答某种两年一次的文化放大器风格调查，了解你的感受，但这些问题并没有真正深入到你所在公司的经理或领导层的有效性。

Whereas, the big picture in this survey, and I think the thing that stood out to us the most, is how bifurcated the workforce is right now. And what you're going to see is that AI has an outlier level, outsize impact, on how people feel about their work more so than any other characteristic of their job, whether it's their role, the company they work for, the company size, their level, et cetera.

中文：然而，本次调查的总体情况，我认为对我们来说最突出的一点是，目前劳动力队伍的分化程度如何。你将看到的是，人工智能对人们对工作的感受比他们工作的任何其他特征都具有异常水平和巨大的影响，无论是他们的角色、他们工作的公司、公司规模、他们的水平等等。

Half of the people in tech are feeling incredible; energized, amplified, excited about the technology and the future of their role. And the other half feel like the future is unclear, they feel destabilized, they feel diminished, other negative emotions around that. It's a very interesting picture that really cuts the tech workforce in half, and that's what we'll see in a second.

中文：一半的科技人员感到不可思议；对技术和他们的角色的未来充满活力、放大和兴奋。另一半则感觉未来不明朗，他们感到不稳定，感觉自己被削弱了，还有其他与此相关的负面情绪。这是一幅非常有趣的图景，它确实将技术劳动力减少了一半，这就是我们稍后会看到的。

It feels so like, yes, this feels correct as we look at people in tech. It just is so clear that this happening. And what's interesting is it's fifty fifty in the results. I didn't expect to be so even. That was a really interesting takeaway.

中文：感觉就像是，是的，当我们观察科技行业的人时，这种感觉是正确的。很明显这种事正在发生。有趣的是，结果是 50 50。没想到会这么均匀。这是一个非常有趣的收获。

It's 50-50. When you dive a little bit deeper into the data, there is some nuance there. So we're looking at this slide with the question that you and I both decided to answer the survey, which is how has AI shifted your professional identity, if at all? And I'll actually call out, first of all, that only 3% of people reported that AI hasn't shifted their identity. So clearly AI has changed how we each view ourselves. That's first of all.

中文：是 50-50。当您更深入地研究数据时，就会发现一些细微差别。因此，我们在看这张幻灯片时提出了一个问题，即你和我都决定回答这项调查，即人工智能如何改变了你的职业身份（如果有的话）？首先，我要指出的是，只有 3% 的人表示人工智能没有改变他们的身份。显然，人工智能已经改变了我们每个人看待自己的方式。这是首先的。

But then to your point, the most prominent thing here is that 50% of people in tech are feeling amplified. They feel like they can do more. They feel like they can do better. It's a wholly positive emotion, and it's great. It's great for them.

中文：但说到你的观点，这里最突出的事情是 50% 的科技人员感到自己被放大了。他们觉得自己可以做得更多。他们觉得自己可以做得更好。这是一种完全积极的情绪，而且很棒。这对他们来说很棒。

But the other half of tech divide into three distinct groups. The first group is people who feel like their role is being redefined. That group doesn't actually have that much clarity or specific positive or negative emotions around what's happening. They just don't really understand it. It's a very mixed bag type of emotion, where it's very clear to me that my role is fundamentally changing, but I don't really know what it means. And that's 27% of our sample. Then, as we go down the line, we have two groups who have clear negative emotions around what's going on. The first group, 14% of people feel destabilized. The ground is shaking beneath them. They have very little clarity on what's going on. They have high anxiety levels. They report having very negative and pessimistic views of what's to come.

中文：但另一半科技公司分为三个不同的群体。第一组是感觉自己的角色正在被重新定义的人。该群体实际上对正在发生的事情并没有那么清晰或具体的积极或消极情绪。他们只是不太明白。这是一种非常复杂的情感，我很清楚我的角色正在发生根本性的变化，但我真的不知道这意味着什么。这是我们样本的 27%。然后，当我们继续下去时，我们有两个群体对正在发生的事情有明显的负面情绪。第一组，14%的人感到不稳定。他们脚下的地面在震动。他们对正在发生的事情知之甚少。他们的焦虑程度很高。他们报告称对未来的看法非常消极和悲观。

And then, 5% of people feel diminished. They feel like the great powers of AI have taken something away from them, and something that obviously is never going to come back, because what's the saying, AI and AI models are the worst today that they'll ever be. They're only getting better. So people who feel diminished now will only feel more diminished in the future, probably.

中文：然后，5% 的人感到自己被削弱了。他们觉得人工智能的强大力量从他们身上夺走了一些东西，而且这些东西显然永远不会回来，因为俗话说，人工智能和人工智能模型是当今最糟糕的。他们只会变得更好。因此，现在感到自己被削弱的人将来可能只会感到更加被削弱。

Super. So following that thread-

中文：极好的。因此，按照该线程-

Sorry for the bad news.

中文：很抱歉这个坏消息。

Sorry for the bad news. There's some good news here. So following that thread, these buckets correlate super strongly with, basically every other measure of how people are doing. See this kind of regression on just every other core question you asked, and it's so interesting to see how connected these are.

中文：很抱歉这个坏消息。这里有一些好消息。因此，按照这条线索，这些桶与基本上所有其他衡量人们行为方式的指标都有很强的相关性。在您提出的所有其他核心问题上都可以看到这种回归，看到这些问题之间的联系非常有趣。

Yeah. And just to put a couple of statistical terms on this to clarify how big the effect is. In tech, we are somewhat obsessed with the notion of statistical significance. But the thing about statistical significance is that, if you have a large enough sample, you can reach that type of significance, regardless of how much the effect matters practically.

中文：是的。只需添加几个统计术语来阐明其影响有多大。在科技领域，我们有点痴迷于统计显着性的概念。但统计显着性的问题在于，如果你有足够大的样本，你就可以达到这种显着性，无论效果实际上有多重要。

A better way to look at things is using an effect size measure, like Cohen's d in this case. And what effect size tells you is, practically, how much does this thing matter? So for example, last year, a couple of the largest effects we saw were number one, your manager. Who your mager is and how effective they are matches a ton, to how much you are enjoying your job and how optimistic you are and how burnt out you are or not. And we'll see some of that later on.

中文：看待事物的更好方法是使用效应大小测量，就像本例中的科恩 d 一样。实际上，效应大小告诉你的是，这件事有多重要？例如，去年，我们看到的几个最大的影响是第一，你的经理。你的经理是谁以及他们的效率如何，与你对工作的享受程度、你的乐观程度以及你是否疲惫不堪有很大关系。稍后我们会看到其中的一些内容。

And the second large effect we found was the founder happiness effect. Founders, these people who are currently founders and in their journey of running a startup, are incredibly happy, probably because they have lots of agency and autonomy, relatively to the typical employee. This finding, this insight around the impact of AI on your identity, and on every single other variable around your job, is about three times as large as those other effects.

中文：我们发现的第二大效应是创始人幸福效应。创始人，这些目前是创始人并在经营一家初创公司的旅程中的人非常高兴，可能是因为相对于典型员工，他们拥有很多代理权和自主权。这一发现，即人工智能对你的身份以及你工作周围的每个其他变量的影响的洞察力，大约是其他影响的三倍。

So this technology, this era that we're in, is having an outlier level, outsized impact on how people are feeling about work, more so than anything else we've seen.

中文：因此，这项技术，我们所处的这个时代，对人们对工作的感受产生了异常的影响，其影响比我们所见过的任何其他技术都要大。

So let's actually look at that data of just how this sort of classification connects to just optimism, burnout, things like that. And we're going to come back to just what exactly is that divide, just the question to ask that tells you which side you're on, but let's look at this first.

中文：因此，让我们实际看看这种分类如何与乐观、倦怠等事物联系起来的数据。我们将回到这个分歧到底是什么，只是要问的问题告诉你你站在哪一边，但让我们先看看这个。

Yeah, so we'll dive into some of these things in a little more depth later on, but just to put it all together, what you're looking at here is the AI identity stance, and then a breakdown by your AI identity around career optimism, burnout, layoff worry.

中文：是的，所以我们稍后会更深入地探讨其中的一些事情，但为了把它们放在一起，你在这里看到的是人工智能身份立场，然后是你的人工智能身份围绕职业乐观、倦怠、裁员担忧的细分。

And, an interesting one for me, and we'll talk about this further, would you recommend your role to someone coming into the industry now? And what you can see is that as you move from the people who feel amplified to the people who feel diminished, career optimism goes down significantly. Burnout, or reports of burnout, go up significantly. Layoff worry also rises significantly.

中文：而且，对我来说这是一个有趣的问题，我们将进一步讨论这一点，您会向现在进入该行业的人推荐您的角色吗？你可以看到，当你从那些感觉被放大的人转向那些感觉被削弱的人时，职业乐观情绪会显着下降。倦怠或倦怠的报告显着增加。裁员担忧也显着上升。

And perhaps the most significant finding of them all, is that people would not recommend junior people, early career people, entering into the tech workforce at this moment given what's happening with AI.

中文：也许其中最重要的发现是，鉴于人工智能正在发生的事情，人们目前不会推荐初级人员、早期职业人员进入技术劳动力队伍。

And you are seeing these very linear, clear, and organized effects, which just demonstrates to you the impact that AI is having on all of these different variables.

中文：你会看到这些非常线性、清晰和有组织的效果，这只是向你展示了人工智能对所有这些不同变量的影响。

And what I love is you took all of all these data points, and you've created these four archetypes of people today. And I feel like everyone listening is going to be like, "Okay, that's me." So let's go through that.

中文：我喜欢的是你收集了所有这些数据点，并且创造了今天这四种人的原型。我觉得每个听的人都会说：「好吧，这就是我。」让我们来看看。

Yeah. So we're seeing these four tech workers, and the way we got to this is later on in the survey, we asked people about how they're feeling, and to report specific emotions. And people could choose as many emotions as they wanted.

中文：是的。所以我们看到了这四位科技工作者，我们在调查的后期，询问了人们的感受，并报告了具体的情绪。人们可以选择任意数量的情感。

And by the way, fun fact, on average, people selected five different emotions, and I think a couple of people selected 13 emotions that they're feeling, which is a lot.

中文：顺便说一句，有趣的是，人们平均选择了 5 种不同的情绪，我认为有几个人选择了他们感受到的 13 种情绪，数量很多。

So, the first archetype we found is the energized tech worker, and that's 41% of our samples. These are the people who were saying that products has become fun again. "I'm exploring things. I feel like I'm in the tech amusement park, where everything is open to me, and I can experiment with new approaches. I'm a builder now. I have powers that I've never had before," et cetera. These people are very energized about the technology and about their careers.

中文：因此，我们发现的第一个原型是充满活力的科技工作者，占我们样本的 41%。这些人说产品又变得有趣了。 「我正在探索事物。我感觉自己身处科技游乐园，一切都向我开放，我可以尝试新方法。我现在是一名建筑商。我拥有以前从未拥有过的力量，」等等。这些人对技术和他们的职业充满热情。

The second group we called the conflicted, the ambivalent middle. These are 35% of the sample. These are people who are having, on the one hand, the most fun they've ever had as builders, as PMs, as designers, as engineers, whatever their role is. And on the other hand, they're feeling the most uncertainty that they've ever felt in their careers. They just don't understand where this is going, and whether they're building the things that will ultimately lead to the end of their careers as they know it.

中文：第二组我们称之为冲突的、矛盾的中间派。这些占样本的 35%。一方面，这些人作为建设者、项目经理、设计师、工程师，无论他们的角色是什么，都享受到了他们所经历过的最大乐趣。另一方面，他们感受到了职业生涯中最大的不确定性。他们只是不明白这将走向何方，也不明白他们正在构建的东西是否最终会导致他们所知道的职业生涯的结束。

The third archetype are the disoriented people, the people who feel like their role keeps shifting. There's a quote that we saw from one of the respondents, "We're like farmers on the cusp of the industrial revolution and we just don't see a clear path to what's happening." Very interesting comparison to that era. And these are people who are feeling very disoriented around what's going on in their career and where things are leading.

中文：第三个原型是迷失方向的人，感觉自己的角色不断变化的人。我们从一位受访者那里看到一句话：「我们就像处于工业革命风口浪尖的农民，我们只是看不到正在发生的事情的清晰路径。」与那个时代的比较非常有趣。这些人对自己职业生涯中发生的事情以及事情的发展方向感到非常迷失方向。

And then finally, 12% of the sample we categorized as resentful. They're feeling pressured, they're feeling checked out. They are not enjoying their work right now. They're saying things like, "I've been forced to use AI or lose my job. And even when I use AI, I'm still seeing people lose their jobs. I just hate it. I hate having to leverage this technology, rather than do my own thing, and maybe ignore the technology," which obviously none of us can ignore at this point.

中文：最后，我们将 12% 的样本归为怨恨型。他们感到压力很大，感觉受到了检查。他们现在不喜欢他们的工作。他们说，「我被迫使用人工智能，否则就会失去工作。即使我使用人工智能，我仍然看到人们失去工作。我只是讨厌它。我讨厌必须利用这项技术，而不是做我自己的事情，也许会忽略这项技术，」显然我们现在没有人可以忽视这一点。

There's a lot of people clearly that are very unhappy, resentful, disoriented. I imagine that group can't imagine a lot of people are feeling extremely energized, and I think vice versa.

中文：显然有很多人非常不高兴、怨恨、迷失方向。我想这个群体无法想象很多人都感到非常精力充沛，我认为反之亦然。

So I think this is just really interesting to see that many people are very different from you. There are many people that are having a really good time, a lot of people that are having a really bad time, and it's just a good way to remember and basically have empathy for the other half, especially the folks not doing as well, because not everyone is as energized. And we'll talk about what that energized group looks like. But I think that's just an important point. A lot of people are having a really hard time.

中文：所以我认为看到很多人与你非常不同真的很有趣。有很多人过得很开心，也有很多人过得很糟糕，这是一种记住另一半的好方法，基本上对另一半有同理心，尤其是那些表现不佳的人，因为不是每个人都那么精力充沛。我们将讨论这个充满活力的团队是什么样子。但我认为这只是重要的一点。很多人都过得很艰难。

I really agree with you, Lenny. And I think that given the pace of change of the technology, I really do feel that too much of our focus is being spent on mastering the technology and trying to understand what the heck we should be doing with these new releases, new models, new capabilities, loop engineering, whatever the next thing will be next week. And we're not spending enough time and focus on our relationships at work, on seeing our colleagues, on supporting our peers in also being able to work with this technology, thrive with it, succeed with it, and get along and collaborate well with people who don't belong in the same bucket as us when it comes to how the technology's being perceived.

中文：我真的同意你的看法，莱尼。我认为，考虑到技术变革的步伐，我确实觉得我们太多的注意力都花在了掌握技术上，并试图理解我们到底应该用这些新版本、新模型、新功能、循环工程，无论下周会发生什么。我们没有花足够的时间和精力来关注我们在工作中的关系，关注我们的同事，支持我们的同事也能够使用这项技术，利用它蓬勃发展，利用它取得成功，并与那些在如何看待技术方面与我们不属于同一桶的人相处和合作。

So, I personally would love to see all of us, especially energized people, take some of that energy and spend it on the people around you rather than the all-in focus on whatever the next thing is with AI.

中文：因此，我个人希望看到我们所有人，尤其是精力充沛的人，将一些精力花在周围的人身上，而不是全神贯注于人工智能的下一步发展。

Let's go to the next takeaway. Let's talk about burnout and optimism.

中文：我们去下一个外卖吧。我们来谈谈倦怠和乐观。

Yeah. So, last year we looked at burnout and we looked at optimism, and burnout was at a worrying level, enough that we published further research on it. And we introduced the Armor Framework around how to deal with burnout and fight burnout. And this time around, I'm not sure what I was expecting, necessarily. I think I was hoping that optimism would hold steady, and that burnout wouldn't go up, because supposedly with new abilities and even better models, perhaps you might think that we wouldn't have to work as hard, or put as much energy into everything in a way that gets us burnt out. And yet, that's not what we're seeing. When it comes to significant burnout, burnout that's higher than moderate, we've gone up from 44.7% in 2025 to 54.7% in 2026. So burnout is surging. More than half of our sample are feeling significantly burnt out at this point.

中文：是的。所以，去年我们研究了倦怠，我们研究了乐观情绪，倦怠达到了令人担忧的水平，足以让我们发表进一步的研究。我们围绕如何处理倦怠和对抗倦怠介绍了 Armor 框架。这一次，我不确定我到底在期待什么。我想我希望乐观情绪能够保持稳定，倦怠感不会加剧，因为据说有了新的能力和更好的模型，也许你可能会认为我们不必那么努力工作，或者在一切事情上投入那么多的精力，从而让我们精疲力尽。然而，这并不是我们所看到的。当谈到严重倦怠（高于中度倦怠）时，我们已经从 2025 年的 44.7% 上升到 2026 年的 54.7%。所以倦怠正在激增。此时，我们的样本中超过一半的人都感到明显的倦怠。

And at the same time, optimism around the future of our roles and our careers, is falling from 54.8% in 2025 to 48.7% in 2026. Bad news for the tech community.

中文：与此同时，对我们角色和职业未来的乐观情绪从 2025 年的 54.8% 下降到 2026 年的 48.7%。这对科技界来说是个坏消息。

I don't know what to say about this other than that sucks. I don't like this. I get it fully. I can completely understand why people are feeling this. Pretty worrisome, the rise to a massive jump, over 10% increase in burnout, just in a year.

中文：除了这很糟糕之外，我不知道该说什么。我不喜欢这个。我完全明白了。我完全理解为什么人们会有这种感觉。非常令人担忧的是，仅仅一年之内，倦怠率就大幅上升，增加了 10% 以上。

Yeah. And it's interesting, you've had several guests on in the past who've talked about things related to this. I loved your conversation with Jeff from Ramp, and he shared that his worst burnout happened when velocity was lowest. So when you put effort into things that don't actually move, it doesn't feel good and that leads to burnout.

中文：是的。有趣的是，过去有几位嘉宾谈论过与此相关的事情。我喜欢你与 Ramp 的杰夫的谈话，他分享说，他最严重的倦怠发生在速度最低时。因此，当你把精力投入到实际上不会移动的事情上时，感觉并不好，并会导致倦怠。

And I think that maps for me with certain theories around burnout, where stagnation leads to burnout. I think what's going on now, is the opposite. These data showcase to you that as we ship faster than ever, as we move from shipping a couple of PRs a day to 30 PRs a day, or just doing so much more, in some ways that might be fun, but we are burning out more than we did before.

中文：我认为这对我来说与倦怠的某些理论相符，停滞会导致倦怠。我认为现在发生的情况恰恰相反。这些数据向您展示，随着我们的交付速度比以往任何时候都要快，当我们从每天交付几个 PR 到每天 30 个 PR，或者只是做更多的事情，在某些方面可能很有趣，但我们比以前更疲惫。

And we're not working any less hard, clearly. We're just taking on more stuff, more stuff, more prototypes, more PRDs, more PRs, more campaigns, more agents, more ads, and it's leading to more burnout.

中文：显然，我们的工作并没有减少。我们只是接受更多的东西，更多的东西，更多的原型，更多的 PRD，更多的 PR，更多的活动，更多的代理商，更多的广告，这会导致更多的倦怠。

Yeah. And that's actually one of the takeaways which we'll get to. I don't know if you have this in this deck, but a glimmer of hope that you pointed out is that enjoyment of work is actually still very high, that it's burnout, but also people still at the same levels last year actually, really enjoying their work.

中文：是的。这实际上是我们要得到的要点之一。我不知道你在这个套牌中是否有这个，但你指出的一线希望是，工作的乐趣实际上仍然很高，这是倦怠，但人们实际上仍然处于去年的同一水平，真的很享受他们的工作。

I think what we heard about enjoyment more than anything else, which does give me hope is, it's a couple of things I think. First of all, people are able to bring out certain aspects of their identity and of their passions that they weren't able to before.

中文：我认为我们听到的关于享受的信息比其他任何事情都重要，这确实给了我希望，我认为这是几件事。首先，人们能够展现出他们的身份和激情的某些方面，这是他们以前无法做到的。

If you are currently a PM by role, but you have a designer within you, or you are a marketer, but really inside you have that engineer that's been really wanting to come out, now you can. Various tools that are available to us these days enable you to bring out those sides of your personality and those professional aspirations. And that's something that people are really enjoying. We're sort of escaping our classic swim lanes, and a certain percentage of our roles are transforming into something else.

中文：如果你目前是一名产品经理，但你内心有一位设计师，或者你是一名营销人员，但实际上你内心有一位真正想出来的工程师，现在你可以了。如今，我们可以使用各种工具让您展现出您个性的各个方面和职业抱负。这是人们真正喜欢的事情。我们正在逃离经典的泳道，我们的一定比例的角色正在转变为其他角色。

And then the second thing that people are saying that they're finding enjoyable is that they are able to manifest things that they've wanted to build, that seemed impossible not very long ago. And that's whether it's in their main job or things that they're doing on the site, et cetera.

中文：人们说他们觉得有趣的第二件事是他们能够实现他们想要构建的东西，而不久前这似乎是不可能的。这无论是他们的主要工作还是他们在网站上做的事情等等。

So it is still, for many people in tech, an exciting time and an enjoyable time, because we can do things that we never though we'd be able to do because they're outside of our role, because they're outside of what felt technically feasible, or for other reasons.

中文：因此，对于许多科技行业的人来说，这仍然是一段令人兴奋和愉快的时光，因为我们可以做一些我们从未想过能够做的事情，因为它们超出了我们的角色，因为它们超出了技术上可行的范围，或者出于其他原因。

And this is another data point at the end of this, that you have a bunch of recommendations of what to do with all this information, and that connects to something that you recommend later.

中文：这是最后的另一个数据点，您有一堆关于如何处理所有这些信息的建议，并且与您稍后推荐的内容相关。

... what to do with all this information, and that connects to something that you recommend later. But before we get there, one of the other really interesting takeaways was around layoffs and how layoffs impact fear of layoffs impact burnout. Talk about that.

中文：...如何处理所有这些信息，以及您稍后推荐的内容。但在我们到达那里之前，其他真正有趣的要点之一是关于裁员，以及裁员如何影响对裁员的恐惧影响倦怠。谈谈那个。

We did ask people how worried they are about being laid off. And as you can see, 72% of our sample are worried to a certain extent about being laid off, and 41.2% are at least moderately worried about being laid off. So it is clear that people are feeling that they might be cutting the branch that they're sitting on when it comes to using AI. People are reporting that their company's going all in on agents, all in on these technologies, and it does feel like they may be pushed out at some point, so the worry level is high. And I think if you're watching this, you're starting to notice that there's a ton of ambivalence right now in the community, and a ton of clashes between emotions, feeling energized and enjoying my job, and at the same time, not being very optimistic about it and feeling tired from it and feeling worried that all of that enjoyment is going to end one day when the company I work for decides that I'm no longer needed.

中文：我们确实询问了人们对于被解雇有多担心。而且正如你所看到的，我们的样本中 72%的人在一定程度上担心被解雇，41.2%的人至少中度担心被解雇。因此，很明显，人们感觉在使用人工智能时，他们可能会砍掉他们所处的分支。人们报告说，他们的公司正在全力投入代理，全力投入这些技术，而且确实感觉他们可能会在某个时候被淘汰，因此担忧程度很高。我想，如果你正在看这个，你会开始注意到，现在社区里存在着大量的矛盾心理，情绪之间存在着大量的冲突，我感觉充满活力，很享受我的工作，但与此同时，我对此并不乐观，感到厌倦，担心有一天，当我工作的公司决定不再需要我时，所有这些享受都会结束。

I feel a lot of people listening are probably feeling all this and feeling heard. So what's interesting is so far the two takeaways. One is this bifurcation that's happening, and these archetypes that break that group up a little bit further. At the same time, just broadly, burnout is increasing significantly. Optimism is declining. Talk about just those two, how you think about those two side by side, this idea of many people are much happier and having the best time of their life. My people are having a really bad time, but then broadly, this optimism and burnout shift.

中文：我觉得很多听的人可能都感受到了这一切并感觉被听到了。到目前为止，有趣的是两个要点。其中之一是正在发生的分歧，而这些原型进一步分裂了这个群体。与此同时，从广义上讲，职业倦怠正在显着增加。乐观情绪正在下降。只谈论这两个人，你如何看待这两个人并肩而行，很多人的想法是更加幸福并且度过了一生中最美好的时光。我的人民过得很糟糕，但总的来说，这种乐观和倦怠的转变。

I think there's something addictive about this technology, and I'll speak for myself for a second and say that I've also never had as much fun in my career as when using these technologies, and I've been using it for too many hours a day playing about and building. I think many of us, even those who aren't as energized about the technology, we still feel like we're in this fascinating technological playground, and it's very, very hard to disengage from that technology and touch grass, read a book, whatever you love to do in your spare time as well, Lenny.

中文：我认为这项技术让人上瘾，我想为自己说一说，在我的职业生涯中，我从未像使用这些技术那样获得如此多的乐趣，而且我每天花太多时间来玩弄和构建它。我认为我们中的许多人，即使是那些对技术不那么感兴趣的人，我们仍然感觉自己身处这个迷人的技术游乐场，并且很难脱离该技术并触摸草地，读书，无论你在业余时间喜欢做什么，莱尼。

And so, yes, we're enjoying using this technology because it's opened up avenues that we've never had, but on the other hand, it's tiring. It's tiring to be constantly learning this technology, and constantly trying to apply it in different contexts, and constantly try to take on more than what your traditional role dictated. Because, again, there aren't any traditional roles anymore, we're just all builders these days, whether that's an official thing within a company or not. And so I think that naturally this leads to these clashing emotions, these exciting feelings around what's possible, and how fun it is to use AI. And on the other hand, the realization that the reason this technology is so exciting is because it's so powerful, and because it's so powerful, it might be coming for us, and to take our jobs, right? Did you grow up on The Terminator movies? I keep thinking about The Terminator movies with time-

中文：所以，是的，我们很享受使用这项技术，因为它开辟了我们从未有过的途径，但另一方面，它很累。不断地学习这项技术，不断地尝试将其应用到不同的环境中，并不断地尝试承担比传统角色规定的更多的任务，这是很累人的。因为，再一次，不再有任何传统的角色，现在我们都是建设者，无论这是否是公司内部的正式事情。所以我认为这自然会导致这些冲突的情绪，这些关于可能性的令人兴奋的感觉，以及使用人工智能是多么有趣。另一方面，我们意识到这项技术之所以如此令人兴奋，是因为它是如此强大，而且因为它如此强大，它可能会来找我们，抢走我们的工作，对吗？你是看着《终结者》电影长大的吗？随着时间的推移，我一直在思考《终结者》电影——

I don't know about growing up, but yes, I watched them early in my life.

中文：我不知道成长过程如何，但是，是的，我从小就看过他们。

Oh my gosh, I love those movies, and I just can't help but wonder when the robots are coming for us. So incredible technology might be coming for us at some point.

中文：天哪，我喜欢那些电影，我忍不住想知道机器人什么时候会来找我们。因此，令人难以置信的技术可能会在某个时候出现在我们面前。

Skynet is being built right now.

中文：天网现在正在建设中。

Skynet is coming.

中文：天网来了

So there's going to be a really great takeaway around this before we get to that one actually. It's like every single one is so interesting. I'm just like, "Man, this one's interesting, but they're all interesting." Let's get to the next takeaway around people's sense of their own career, and whether they recommend it.

中文：因此，在我们真正讨论这一点之前，将会有一个非常好的收获。好像每一个都那么有趣。我只是想，「伙计，这个很有趣，但它们都很有趣。」让我们讨论下一个要点：人们对自己职业的看法，以及他们是否推荐它。

This is a wild one for me because at least within the research community, I am known as the net promoter score hater. I even built a website dedicated to fighting NPS, npsistheworst.com.

中文：这对我来说是一件疯狂的事，因为至少在研究界，我被称为净推荐分数仇恨者。我什至建立了一个专门打击 NPS 的网站，npsistheworst.com。

That an actual website?

中文：那是一个真实的网站吗？

It's an actual website. Fun fact, by the way, I dislike NPS so much that I even brought to the domain npsisthebest.com, and I forward people from that to npsistheworst.com. That's how committed I am to fighting NPS.

中文：这是一个真实的网站。有趣的是，顺便说一句，我非常不喜欢 NPS，以至于我什至将其带到了 npsisthebest.com 域，并将该域中的人员转发到 npsistheworst.com。这就是我对抗 NPS 的决心。

Amazing.

中文：惊人的。

But you and I were both genuinely curious about whether people who are already a few years in and they may be senior or above senior in their roles, what would they say to the person entering the industry now? Or what would they say to a person considering entering the industry now? Would they recommend their role and the tech industry more broadly to a friend, or a relative of theirs? And the answer was shocking. Absolutely shocking. So let me show you the data around this, and let me preface this with a quick explanation on NPS because it's not so easy to understand.

中文：但你和我都真心好奇，那些已经进入该行业几年、并且可能在其职位上处于高级或高级以上的人，他们会对现在进入该行业的人说些什么？或者他们会对现在考虑进入这个行业的人说什么？他们会向朋友或亲戚更广泛地推荐自己的角色和科技行业吗？答案令人震惊。绝对令人震惊。因此，让我向您展示与此相关的数据，并以有关 NPS 的快速解释作为序言，因为它并不那么容易理解。

NPS is this question around whether you would recommend a product, or in this case your role to a friend or family member, right? And the scale goes from zero to 10, 10 being you would absolutely recommend your role, and zero being you would absolutely not recommend your role. But then NPS as a whole, when it's calculated, goes from minus 100, which is absolutely terrible, to plus 100. And the zero point represents neutrality, it represents that the sample as a whole is neutral. It's not a promoter to use NPS speak, meaning I would promote my role to other people. I would recommend it to other people. And they're not detractors either, which means I'm not negative about my role, so that's the zero point.

中文：NPS 是关于您是否会向朋友或家人推荐产品（或者在本例中您的角色）的问题，对吗？等级从 0 到 10，10 表示您绝对会推荐您的角色，0 表示您绝对不会推荐您的角色。但是 NPS 作为一个整体，在计算的时候，从负 100，这绝对是可怕的，变成了正 100。而且零点代表中性，它代表样本整体是中性的。使用 NPS 发言并不是推销员，这意味着我会向其他人推销我的角色。我会把它推荐给其他人。他们也不是批评者，这意味着我对我的角色并不消极，所以这是零点。

What you are seeing here is that no one is a promoter of their role in tech right now, not even founders who are by far the happiest, happy-go-lucky people in tech right now. Founders would not recommend their roles. Neither would people in sales or go-to market, PMs, operations, engineering. And the worst of all, designers and researchers, my community are the least likely to recommend their role to other people coming into tech. It's sort of like saying, "I'm kind of swimming in this pool. The water's kind of okay, but you shouldn't come into these tech waters, they ain't for you."

中文：你在这里看到的是，现在没有人是他们在科技领域角色的推动者，甚至是迄今为止科技领域最快乐、最无忧无虑的创始人。创始人不会推荐他们的角色。销售人员、市场营销人员、项目经理、运营人员、工程人员也不会。最糟糕的是，设计师和研究人员，我的社区最不可能向其他进入科技行业的人推荐他们的角色。这有点像在说：「我在这个游泳池里游泳。水还不错，但你不应该进入这些科技水域，它们不适合你。」

Oh my God, what an interesting takeaway and part of this research. So I'm just looking at this chart just as people are seeing this. Everyone's like, "Nope, don't do what I do."

中文：天哪，这是多么有趣的收获，也是这项研究的一部分。所以我只是在看这个图表，就像人们看到这个一样。每个人都会说：「不，不要做我做的事。」

It's interesting. We're going to talk about how founders are the happiest people in tech, but still it's a very stressful, hard job. I'm surprised it's the least. You would think many founders would be like, "This is the craziest, gnarliest job. You should not do this, it sucks." But it's interesting they're the least likely to recommend.

中文：这很有趣。我们将讨论创始人如何成为科技界最幸福的人，但这仍然是一项压力很大、艰苦的工作。我很惊讶这是最少的。你可能会认为许多创始人会说，「这是最疯狂、最粗糙的工作。你不应该这样做，这很糟糕。」但有趣的是，他们是最不可能推荐的。

There's a strong narrative right now that there's never been a better time to be a founder. You're a lot less reliant on other people to build. There's a ton of conversations around the solopreneur or the duopreneur. There's a ton of conversations around how this is the era to be a founder. And yet people who are currently in that role aren't very excited about recommending it to other people. There's also another layer to this, which is as you go down in seniority, you are less likely to recommend your role. So execs, VPs, maybe even directors are more likely to recommend their role than people who are ICs.

中文：现在有一种强烈的说法认为，现在是成为创始人的最佳时机。您对其他人的构建的依赖要少得多。关于个体企业家或双重企业家的讨论有很多。关于如何成为创始人的时代有很多讨论。然而，目前担任该职位的人并不愿意将其推荐给其他人。还有另一层，随着你的资历下降，你推荐自己职位的可能性就会降低。因此，与 IC 人员相比，高管、副总裁甚至董事更有可能推荐他们的角色。

That's an interesting one, I've seen all sorts of explanations for that. One explanation, for example, is that at the top of the pyramid, VPs are benefiting more from AI because they're getting all of this stream of information and knowledge being processed by AI, making their jobs a lot easier, whereas ICs are each scrambling to build all of these micro SaaS products within the companies they work for. No one knows what anyone else is doing. There's a lot of duplicative work. It's a lot easier to build products these days, but a lot harder to maintain them. And so I think a lot of ICs are feeling like, there's a saying, full gas on neutral. You are pushing the pedal to the metal in your car, but you're in neutral gear, you're not going anywhere. I think that's the feeling that a lot of ICs are having these days with these technologies. I keep building these things, but I'm not having the impact I want. Everyone else is building too. There's lots of confusion, and it's just not worth it anymore.

中文：这是一个有趣的问题，我已经看到了各种各样的解释。例如，一种解释是，在金字塔的顶端，副总裁从人工智能中受益更多，因为他们获得了人工智能处理的所有信息和知识流，使他们的工作变得更加轻松，而 IC 则各自争先恐后地在他们工作的公司内构建所有这些微型 SaaS 产品。没有人知道其他人在做什么。有很多重复的工作。如今，构建产品变得容易多了，但维护它们却困难得多。所以我认为很多 IC 都感觉，有句话说，空档加满油。你正在车里猛踩踏板，但你处于空档，你哪儿也去不了。我认为这就是当今许多 IC 所拥有的这些技术的感受。我一直在创造这些东西，但没有产生我想要的影响。其他人也在建设。有很多混乱，而且不再值得了。

There's this interesting also trend, there's this whole meme of don't become part of the permanent underclass. And I feel like there's a few of these threads throughout this. And here it's like, "Okay, I'm a PM, but it's too late. Don't do this. The door is closing for this role. Things are changing."

中文：还有一个有趣的趋势，就是不要成为永久下层阶级的一部分。我觉得整个过程中都有一些这样的线索。这里就像是，「好吧，我是一名产品经理，但已经太晚了。不要这样做。这个角色的大门即将关闭。事情正在发生变化。」

And it's not just PM, it's every role. Everyone's just like, "Maybe should do something else."

中文：不仅仅是 PM，每个角色都是如此。每个人都会说，「也许应该做点别的事情。」

Yeah, I would agree with that, and I think it's unfortunate. I feel like in the past, people were pushed to CS to learn to code. I know that these days, for myself as a parent, I don't know what to tell my kids to do anymore. I'm not sure what roles will be there for them in just a few years. These are very confusing times, and I think tech employees are feeling that as well. They don't understand what's in line for them in the future, so we certainly don't know to recommend to others like, "Yeah, in five years, it's going to be great."

中文：是的，我同意这一点，但我认为这很不幸。我觉得在过去，人们被推到 CS 去学习编码。我知道现在，对于我自己来说，作为父母，我不知道该告诉我的孩子们做什么了。我不确定几年后他们会扮演什么角色。这是一个非常令人困惑的时期，我认为科技员工也有这种感觉。他们不明白自己未来会做什么，所以我们当然不知道向其他人推荐「是的，五年后，这会很棒」。

Get into plastics. It's like no one knows. It's just zoom out for a moment. It's so insane how much change we're living through right now. This is not a result we would've seen a year or two ago. This is so unstable and uncertain, and this is very new for people in tech, I think.

中文：进入塑料领域。就好像没有人知道一样。只是缩小了一会儿。我们现在所经历的变化真是太疯狂了。这不是我们一两年前会看到的结果。这是非常不稳定和不确定的，我认为这对于科技人员来说是非常新鲜的。

Yeah. I like to use certain metaphors or examples from other areas in my life to explain these things, so I believe you spoke in the past to Scott Wu, the Co-Founder and CEO of Cognition.

中文：是的。我喜欢用生活中其他领域的某些隐喻或例子来解释这些事情，所以我相信你过去曾与 Cognition 联合创始人兼首席执行官 Scott Wu 交谈过。

Devin.

中文：德文.

And they are the makers of Devin. And I recall that when he described the product, he talked about this ladder that the product progressed on. It went from a high school CS student to a college intern to a junior engineer, and at this point probably a senior or a staff level engineer. I would say that we are all watching this technology climb the rungs of this ladder and advance, and we feel like the technology is pulling those rungs from under us. And so the further we've gone up the ladder, the better we feel about our careers and the more stability we have. But the lower we are on that ladder, those rungs getting pulled under our feet. And so it makes lots of sense that we wouldn't recommend being on that ladder to anyone else because the rungs are disappearing.

中文：他们是德文的制造者。我记得他在描述产品时谈到了产品进步的阶梯。从一名高中计算机科学学生到一名大学实习生，再到一名初级工程师，此时可能是一名高级或职员级别的工程师。我想说的是，我们都在看着这项技术攀登梯子的梯级并不断进步，我们感觉这项技术正在将这些梯级从我们脚下拉下来。因此，我们在阶梯上的地位越高，我们对自己的职业生涯的感觉就越好，我们的稳定性也就越强。但我们在梯子上的位置越低，那些梯级就会被拉到我们脚下。因此，我们不建议其他任何人使用这个梯子是很有意义的，因为梯级正在消失。

Man, there's so much to talk about with all this, but let me point out a couple things as I look at this and then we can move on to the next takeaway. One is just, it's interesting that sales and PM are the least bad at don't get into this role. That's interesting. I wouldn't have expected that. Salespeople not as scared about the future of their role. PM. Interesting. That's a big audience here. Not as scared. As you said, research, design, the most don't do this. As a researcher, you touched on this a little bit, but I'm just curious, how does it feel seeing this result?

中文：伙计，关于这一切有很多话要说，但让我在看这个问题时指出一些事情，然后我们可以继续讨论下一个要点。一是，有趣的是，销售和产品经理最不擅长不担任这个角色。那很有意思。我没想到会这样。销售人员并不那么担心他们的角色的未来。下午。有趣的。这里有很多观众。没那么害怕了。正如你所说，研究、设计，大多数不做这个。作为一名研究人员，您稍微触及了这一点，但我只是很好奇，看到这个结果感觉如何？

It's tough. I think the research community has lived with a lot of concerns and trauma and anxiety over the years around having a seat at the table, around finding meaning in our work, around topics like the democratization of research and other people taking on our roles and eventually replacing us. It definitely hurts a lot to see this. I think there's a very important role that research needs to play in the future of building products.

中文：它太硬。我认为，多年来，研究界一直生活在很多担忧、创伤和焦虑之中，围绕着在谈判桌上占有一席之地，围绕着在我们的工作中寻找意义，围绕着研究民主化以及其他人承担我们的角色并最终取代我们等主题。看到这一点肯定很痛苦。我认为研究在未来的建筑产品中需要发挥非常重要的作用。

I think that as this technology progressive, we should become even more thoughtful about what we build rather than less thoughtful. I've heard the narratives around it's so cheap to build, just build a thousand prototypes and see what works. I think you've heard this in a recent conversation as well. I would suggest that we're just going to get even more burnt out that way, I would not recommend that approach personally.

中文：我认为，随着这项技术的进步，我们应该对我们构建的东西更加深思熟虑，而不是不那么深思熟虑。我听说过有关它的建造成本如此之低的说法，只需建造一千个原型，看看什么有效。我想你在最近的一次谈话中也听说过这一点。我建议，这样我们只会更加疲惫不堪，我个人不推荐这种方法。

I think research has a very, and design, has a very important part to play in raising the ceiling of what's possible. Whereas AI has mostly lowered the bar, but it hasn't raised the ceiling. And I can also tell you that PMs being somewhat more likely to recommend their roles, even though they're not likely to recommend their roles, does actually make sense to me. It's more of a generalist role, I would claim, than some of these other roles. And this is the era of the generalist, if you would ask me, the AI era.

中文：我认为研究和设计在提高可能性的上限方面发挥着非常重要的作用。人工智能在很大程度上降低了门槛，但并没有提高上限。我还可以告诉你，PM 在某种程度上更有可能推荐他们的角色，即使他们不太可能推荐他们的角色，这对我来说确实有意义。我认为，与其他一些角色相比，它更像是一个通才角色。如果你问我的话，这是一个多面手的时代，也就是人工智能时代。

I'm the most surprised by sales and go-to-market because if we are indeed in some sort of SaaSpocalypse, which I don't personally believe we are, but it's been said, then I don't think sales and go-to-market people should be feeling too great about recommending their roles. But maybe they believe that sales at this point cannot be done by AI.

中文：我对销售和市场推广最感到惊讶，因为如果我们确实处于某种 SaaS 末日之中（我个人并不认为我们是这样，但有人说过），那么我认为销售和市场推广人员不应该对推荐自己的角色感到太高兴。但也许他们认为目前的销售无法通过人工智能来完成。

Yeah.

中文：是的。

Just that.

中文：就这样。

There's just so much I want to talk about here. It's important to note, this is a very important note that I'm going to say here, this doesn't mean design is going away or research is going away. This is just saying people in that role right now, the narrative in their head is don't do this. Does not mean this is over, because it could just be all this hype that we keep hearing. I'm guilty of adding to it from various guests, but this is just how people feel, doesn't mean this is what's happening.

中文：我想在这里谈论的东西太多了。值得注意的是，这是我要在这里说的一个非常重要的说明，这并不意味着设计正在消失或研究正在消失。这只是说现在担任该角色的人，他们脑子里的想法是不要这样做。这并不意味着这一切已经结束，因为这可能只是我们不断听到的所有这些炒作。我很内疚地添加了不同客人的意见，但这只是人们的感受，并不意味着这就是正在发生的事情。

100%. This entire unique project in tech is all about how people feel. It's not about the realities of working in tech. It's about people's emotions, about how people feel. I really do think no one other than us has really captured these emotions in the way that we have. But yeah, that's a great reminder. This is not an image of reality. This is an image of how people are feeling in tech right now.

中文：100%。这整个独特的科技项目都是关于人们的感受。这与科技行业工作的现实无关。这是关于人们的情绪，关于人们的感受。我确实认为除了我们之外没有人能够以我们的方式真正捕捉到这些情感。但是，是的，这是一个很好的提醒。这不是现实的图像。这是人们现在对科技的感受。

Another quick data point that we want to make sure to communicate here, you touched on this, but I don't know if you actually made this as clear to people as it should be. So this is looking at, would you recommend people get into my role? We also asked just how are you feeling about your role? Are you happy being in this role? And the result there was, I'm actually doing okay, I'm happy. I'm happy a designer, researcher. So as you said, it's this kind of, the water's fine, but don't get in. Talk a little bit about that just to make sure that point is clear.

中文：我们希望确保在这里传达的另一个快速数据点，您谈到了这一点，但我不知道您是否真的向人们清楚地说明了这一点。所以这是在考虑，你会推荐人们担任我的角色吗？我们还问你对自己的角色感觉如何？你很高兴扮演这个角色吗？结果是，我实际上做得很好，我很高兴。我很高兴成为一名设计师、研究员。正如你所说，是这样的，水很好，但不要进去。稍微讨论一下，只是为了确保这一点很清楚。

When we asked people things like, are they enjoying their job? As we talked about earlier, most people said that overall, yes, they're having fun in their role. I think what's going on here is that again, people are lacking optimism compared to what they were. Optimism has gone down. So there's a big difference between how people are feeling now about their role, given what they've achieved in their careers, and where they are on the ladder compared to what they're extrapolating might happen in a year, in three years, in five years.

中文：当我们问人们诸如此类的问题时，他们喜欢自己的工作吗？正如我们之前谈到的，大多数人表示，总体而言，是的，他们在自己的角色中很享受。我认为这里发生的事情又是，人们与以前相比缺乏乐观。乐观情绪已经下降。因此，考虑到人们在职业生涯中取得的成就以及他们在阶梯上的位置，与他们推断的一年、三年、五年后可能发生的情况相比，人们现在对自己角色的感受存在很大差异。

And what people are extrapolating might happen is clearly more negative than their current experiences. So yeah, I mean all in all, we're doing okay as an industry. We're enjoying, we're trying new things, we're experiencing a complete paradigm shift in how we work. And that's fun for a while, but it seems like people feel like this is not going in the best of directions. And of course I hope we're all wrong. I hope we're all wrong.

中文：人们推断可能发生的事情显然比他们目前的经历更消极。所以，是的，我的意思是总而言之，我们作为一个行业做得还不错。我们很享受，我们正在尝试新事物，我们正在经历工作方式的彻底转变。这在一段时间很有趣，但人们似乎觉得这并没有朝着最好的方向发展。当然，我希望我们都错了。我希望我们都错了。

Me too. As a natural optimist, I'm like, "It's going to be all right." So we'll see.

中文：我也是。作为一个天生的乐观主义者，我想，「一切都会好起来的。」所以我们拭目以待。

I'm a natural optimist too, and I'm realizing so far we haven't been in too much of optimism mode, so I hope we manage to get to some of that as well.

中文：我也是一个天生的乐观主义者，我意识到到目前为止我们还没有处于过于乐观的模式，所以我希望我们也能做到一些乐观。

This episode is brought to you by Mercury, radically different banking loved by over 300,000 entrepreneurs and now with command. I've been a customer of Mercury's for over six years. I have never once thought about leaving. Mercury is basically what happens when banking is built by product people, not by bankers. They make it so easy. Dare I say fun to send invoices, move money around, set up virtual cards for folks on my team. Does your bank have an API, a terminal native CLI, or an AI-ready MCP server? I don't think so. And just recently, they launched Command, a conversational interface built directly into Mercury, which acts as your financial operator.

中文：本集由 Mercury 为您带来，这是一家完全不同的银行业，受到超过 300,000 名企业家的喜爱，现在已得到指挥。我成为 Mercury 的客户已有六年多了。我从来没有想过离开。当银行业是由产品人员而不是银行家建立时，水星基本上就会发生。他们让一切变得如此简单。我敢说发送发票、转移资金、为我的团队成员设置虚拟卡很有趣。您的银行是否有 API、终端本机 CLI 或支持 AI 的 MCP 服务器？我不这么认为。就在最近，他们推出了 Command，这是一个直接内置于 Mercury 中的对话界面，充当您的财务运营商。

I've been using Command to transfer money around to figure out what categories I've been spending the most money in, analyze my cash flows. And just today, I used it to find out how much I've made from a specific sponsor over the past year. I just asked how much have I made from X over the past year? 10 seconds later, I have an answer. It is so freaking cool. Visit mercury.com to learn more and apply online in minutes. Mercury is a FinTech company, not an FDIC-insured bank. Banking services provided through Choice Financial Group and Column N.A., Members FDIC.

中文：我一直在使用 Command 进行转账，以找出我在哪些类别上花费最多的钱，并分析我的现金流。就在今天，我用它来了解过去一年我从特定赞助商那里赚了多少钱。我只是问过去一年我从 X 赚了多少钱？ 10 秒后，我得到了答案。太酷了。访问 mercury.com 了解更多信息并在几分钟内在线申请。 Mercury 是一家金融科技公司，而不是 FDIC 承保的银行。通过 Choice Financial Group 和 Column N.A.（FDIC 成员）提供的银行服务。

Let's talk about takeaway four. Looked at productivity, looked at quality, look at just the upside of AI.

中文：来说说外卖四。着眼于生产力，着眼于质量，着眼于人工智能的优势。

This was a very interesting one to me. In last year's survey that we did on the impact of AI specifically on productivity and quality, people were rather bullish about the technology and how much better it makes them, not just more efficient, but better. And this time around, we saw some interesting findings. Let me start with this. And this is the initial view, but it leads to something very different than I thought would happen. When we simply asked the question, how much better are you at your job thanks to AI? Unequivocally, the answer was yes. You can see here that 97.2% of people are saying that AI is making them better at their job, and close to 50% of people are saying that AI is making them very much or extremely better at their job. So it's very clear that high level, however you interpret better, which we'll get to in a second, people feel like AI has had an impact. But when you dive deeper into what that means, and you go below the surface level, as you can see here, where doing better actually means something rather different than what you might think. So when I heard people say they're doing better, I thought they meant that literally, I thought the quality of their work was better, that AI was contributing to better quality of work. In fact, it's the exact opposite.

中文：这对我来说是一件非常有趣的事情。在去年我们针对人工智能对生产力和质量的影响进行的调查中，人们对这项技术及其对他们的改善程度相当乐观，不仅更高效，而且更好。这一次，我们看到了一些有趣的发现。让我从这个开始。这是最初的观点，但它导致了与我想象的非常不同的事情。当我们简单地问这个问题时，由于人工智能的帮助，你的工作效率提高了多少？毫无疑问，答案是肯定的。您可以在这里看到，97.2% 的人表示人工智能使他们的工作做得更好，接近 50% 的人表示人工智能使他们的工作做得非常好或非常好。所以很明显，无论你如何更好地解释（我们稍后会谈到），人们都会觉得人工智能已经产生了影响。但是，当您深入了解这意味着什么时，您就会深入到表面以下，正如您在这里所看到的，做得更好实际上意味着与您想象的完全不同的东西。因此，当我听到人们说他们做得更好时，我认为他们的意思是字面意思，我认为他们的工作质量更好，人工智能正在为更好的工作质量做出贡献。事实上，情况恰恰相反。

What we heard from people were two concerning things. The first is that I can do more faster, but not better. So again, AI has lowered the floor of what's possible and enabled people to put out a lot more work than they ever have before, whatever that work is, whether it's PRs, PRDs, research projects, prototypes, but the output isn't of higher quality. And perhaps the even more concerning effect, which we heard about, the deeper cost of all of this is the cost of using AI on thinking and judgment.

中文：我们从人们那里听到了两件令人担忧的事情。首先，我可以做得更快，但不能做得更好。再说一遍，人工智能降低了可能性的底线，使人们能够比以前完成更多的工作，无论工作是什么，无论是 PR、PRD、研究项目、原型，但产出的质量并不高。也许我们听说过的更令人担忧的影响是，所有这一切的更深层次的成本是使用人工智能进行思考和判断的成本。

People essentially told us, "My brain is rotting. My work feels worse." And this is related to phenomenon I've heard about recently, is it cognitive rot? I think is what I've heard. Basically, this phenomenon where you see the initial output of an AI model and you just accept it. You don't apply your judgment to it. You don't apply your thinking to it and you slowly let your mind, your involvement in your work, your agency collapse into this rotting state, so to speak.

中文：人们基本上告诉我们，「我的大脑正在腐烂。我的工作感觉更糟。」这和我最近听说的现象有关，是认知腐烂吗？我想这就是我所听到的。基本上，这种现象是你看到人工智能模型的初始输出，然后你就接受它。你没有对它应用你的判断。可以这么说，你没有将你的想法运用到它上面，你慢慢地让你的思想、你对工作的参与、你的机构崩溃到这种腐烂的状态。

Yeah, this is such an interesting takeaway. There's a positive note to this. As you said, I'm looking at the numbers here. 82% of people say AI is making them at least moderately better at their job and nearly 50% say very much or extremely better, which may correlate with that original, just this bifurcation. The people that feel like AI is making them better at their job, probably the people feel most energized. So whether it's true or not, so I think there's a couple happy points. That's one.

中文：是的，这是一个非常有趣的外卖。这有一个积极的方面。正如你所说，我正在看这里的数字。 82% 的人表示人工智能至少使他们的工作表现有所改善，近 50% 的人表示非常好或非常好，这可能与最初的分歧有关。那些感觉人工智能让他们的工作做得更好的人，可能是感觉最有活力的人。所以无论这是真是假，我认为有几个值得高兴的地方。这是一个。

People feel AI is making them better. They feel that. So that's real even if it may not be. And at the same time, I think they're self-aware the quality is an issue. And also, maybe I'm atrophying in my ability to say code or write strategy docs. So at least people are self-aware that this is happening, not just I'm killing it, all my stuff is higher quality and it's much better than ever.

中文：人们认为人工智能正在让他们变得更好。他们有这样的感觉。所以这就是真实的，即使它可能不是。与此同时，我认为他们也意识到质量是一个问题。而且，也许我编写代码或编写策略文档的能力正在萎缩。所以至少人们意识到这种情况正在发生，不仅仅是我在扼杀它，我所有的东西都质量更高，而且比以往任何时候都好得多。

They are self-aware, but among other things, I'm a certified coach and I would suggest that beyond being self-aware, we need to act on this. There are several explanations I could give to this phenomenon. One of them might be that the honeymoon period with AI is over. We thought it was perfect and the best thing that ever happened to us since sliced bread or whatever typical Americans say, but we've realized it's not quite there yet. And yes, the models are the worst they're ever going to be, they're only getting better, but there's still-

中文：他们有自我意识，但除其他外，我是一名经过认证的教练，我建议除了自我意识之外，我们还需要对此采取行动。对于这种现象我可以给出几种解释。其中之一可能是人工智能的蜜月期已经结束。我们认为这是完美的，是自切片面包或典型美国人所说的以来发生在我们身上的最好的事情，但我们意识到它还没有完全实现。是的，这些模型是有史以来最糟糕的，它们只会变得更好，但仍然-

And yes, the models are the worst they're ever going to be, they're only getting better. But there's still so much they need to get better before we can really say, "Yeah, my work is just so much better and I don't need to be as involved with it."

中文：是的，这些模型是有史以来最糟糕的，它们只会变得更好。但在我们真正可以说「是的，我的工作好多了，我不需要参与其中」之前，他们还有很多地方需要改进。

You had Simon Willison on this show talking about how people are worried about skill atrophy. That they're not learning enough and that we need to be consciously resistant to this. And not let ourselves cognitively rot. And I think this data suggests that we're losing that fight a little bit. We need to put a little bit more energy into it, into fighting this cognitive rot that we're feeling. And to make sure that as the bar continues to rise and this technology continues to evolve, that we are meeting that with deliberate practice, deliberate thinking, deliberate judgment.

中文：西蒙·威利森在这个节目中谈论了人们如何担心技能萎缩。他们学习得还不够，我们需要有意识地抵制这一点。并且不要让我们自己的认知腐烂。我认为这些数据表明我们正在输掉这场战斗。我们需要投入更多的精力，来对抗我们所感受到的这种认知衰退。为了确保随着标准的不断提高和技术的不断发展，我们能够通过刻意的实践、刻意的思考、刻意的判断来满足这一要求。

People are just so bad at that. Just like if I have an easy button, I will press it. I know I shouldn't, but I'm just going to eat those Doritos. So that's the challenge I think for people. It's just like because you could do it the easy way, it's so hard to resist.

中文：人们在这方面实在是太糟糕了。就像如果我有一个简单的按钮，我就会按下它。我知道我不应该，但我只想吃那些多力多滋。这就是我认为对人们来说的挑战。就像因为你可以用简单的方法做到这一点，所以很难抗拒。

And that connects again to this ladder that's being raised that people are just getting into this stuff. It's just they have to make themselves do it the hard way to learn how to do it for real. And I'm really curious how that plays out with junior folks in the market learning how to actually code, how to do peer writing, how to write a [inaudible 00:51:28] from scratch with your fingers versus talking to Claude about it.

中文：这又与人们刚刚进入这个领域的阶梯有关。只是他们必须让自己付出艰苦的努力才能真正学会如何做到这一点。我真的很好奇市场上的初级人员学习如何实际编码、如何进行同行写作、如何用手指从头开始写[听不清 00:51:28]，而不是与克劳德谈论它。

Yeah, there's so much to say here. I think people miss feeling smart sometimes. I think I thought once upon a time about myself that I'm smart. And then you encounter these models, most recently a Fable 5 that just came out for the second time and you don't feel that smart anymore and you sort of lose the sense of self-efficacy that you used to have.

中文：是的，这里有很多话要说。我认为人们有时怀念聪明的感觉。我想我曾经认为自己很聪明。然后你遇到这些模型，最近是《神鬼寓言 5》刚刚第二次问世，你感觉不再那么聪明了，你有点失去了以前的自我效能感。

And the second thing to say about this is that every time you, you, not the AI, solve a problem and get over a barrier, it increases, it raises your baseline of self-efficacy, of self-confidence, of self-belief. And every time you offload that to your favorite AI model, you are lowering that baseline and your thinking and your judgment is watching. And that's a serious problem.

中文：关于这一点要说的第二件事是，每当你，你，而不是人工智能，解决一个问题并克服障碍时，它就会增加，它会提高你的自我效能、自信和自信心的基线。每次你将其转移到你最喜欢的人工智能模型时，你都在降低基线，你的思维和判断力正在观察。这是一个严重的问题。

So maybe just wrap up this takeaway, the sentence used in this report I love, I'll just read. The productivity gains are real, but the quality of the work and the sharpness of the person producing it are taking a hit.

中文：所以也许只是总结一下这个要点，我喜欢这份报告中使用的句子，我就读一下。生产力的提高是真实的，但工作质量和制作人员的敏锐度却受到了打击。

Absolutely. And maybe we'll get to this in the end, but we should keep a close eye on this and really try to work on our own self-efficacy.

中文：绝对地。也许我们最终会做到这一点，但我们应该密切关注这一点，并真正努力提高自己的自我效能。

We need evals for people. Are humans becoming-

中文：我们需要对人们进行评估。人类正在变得——

Evals for people. Let's do that.

中文：对人的评价。让我们这样做吧。

[inaudible 00:52:52] your smartness.

中文：[听不清 00:52:52] 你的聪明才智。

Okay. Let's talk about takeaway number five, which I also though was extremely interesting, my God. So much interesting in this. Let's talk about the fifth takeaway.

中文：好的。我们来谈谈第五点外卖，我也认为这非常有趣，天哪。这很有趣。我们来谈谈第五点收获。

Yeah. So I think the dominant narrative right now in our community is the fear of being replaced. And as we talked about, a lot of people in tech do fear and are worried that they're going to be replaced, that they're going to be laid off. And so it would make sense that if we had a question and one of the options to respond to that question were, I'm worried about losing my job to AI, that it would rank fairly high. But when we look at this slide and when we look at when people are asked, what are your concerns and what's bothering you right now? What are you afraid of in tech? Losing my job to AI is actually second to last on that list.

中文：是的。所以我认为现在我们社区的主流说法是担心被取代。正如我们所讨论的，许多科技行业的人确实害怕并担心他们会被取代，他们会被解雇。因此，如果我们有一个问题，而回答该问题的选项之一是，我担心我的工作会被人工智能夺走，那么它的排名会相当高，这是有道理的。但是，当我们查看这张幻灯片以及当人们被问及时，您的担忧是什么以及现在困扰您的是什么？在科技领域你害怕什么？由于人工智能而失去工作实际上是该列表中倒数第二个。

And instead what we saw rise up to the top is the expectation to do more for the same pay. It's almost as if we're all feeling like we're being squeezed and squeezed and squeezed some more to accomplish more things in less time for the same pay. And so that fear of being overworked is by far the dominant fear. Alongside the second item in this list, which is that the pace is becoming unsustainable. And by pace, I mean both the pace of the work. And the expectation of work velocity, just how much you have to put out a day, every single day. And the pace of change of the technology. Which requires you to invest a significant amount of time in learning the new model, the new framework, the new way to use the technology. Which of course takes away from your core focused working time.

中文：相反，我们看到的晋升是期望以相同的薪酬做更多的事情。就好像我们都感觉自己被挤压、挤压、挤压更多，以便以同样的报酬在更短的时间内完成更多的事情。因此，迄今为止，对过度劳累的恐惧是最主要的恐惧。除了此列表中的第二项之外，即这一步伐正在变得不可持续。我所说的节奏是指工作的节奏。还有对工作速度的期望，就是你每天、每天要付出多少。以及技术变革的步伐。这需要你投入大量的时间来学习新的模型、新的框架、新的技术使用方式。这当然会占用你的核心工作时间。

So it's sort of an evil downward spiral that really prevents you from feeling like you're able to accomplish anything of meaning. You just feel very overworked, very tired.

中文：所以这是一种邪恶的螺旋式下降，它真的让你感觉自己无法完成任何有意义的事情。你只是感觉非常劳累，非常累。

I'm confident everybody listening understands exactly what you're describing here. Obviously connects to that burnout point we made earlier.

中文：我相信每个听众都能准确理解您在这里所描述的内容。显然与我们之前提出的倦怠点有关。

I'll close this takeaway with another quick read from your post. You're such an amazing writer, Noam.

中文：我将通过您的帖子的另一篇快速阅读来结束这篇文章。你真是一位了不起的作家，诺姆。

Thank you.

中文：谢谢。

I love reading your summaries of what you learned, so I'll just read this. The speed AI unlocked got plowed straight back into expectations. Every game becomes the new baseline and the people expected to hit it are running out of room to breathe.

中文：我喜欢阅读你对所学内容的总结，所以我就读一下这个。人工智能解锁的速度直接回到了预期。每场比赛都成为新的底线，而那些有望达到新底线的人已经没有喘息的空间了。

When are we going to get to the optimistic part of this episode?

中文：我们什么时候才能进入这一集的乐观部分？

Maybe we'll find something. Okay, let's talk about takeaway six, which has a little bit of optimism.

中文：也许我们会找到一些东西。好吧，我们来说说外卖六，有一点点乐观。

Oh, yeah. Okay. Okay.

中文：哦，是的。好的。好的。

A lot of ambivalence is kind of the way to put it.

中文：可以这么说，有很多矛盾心理。

Yeah, I mentioned this earlier. The industry is definitely in a state of ambivalence. We try to capture all of the emotions that people are feeling at work right now. And I am happy to report, as you can see here, that the top two emotions are positive emotions, curiosity and excitement. And that's wonderful. That is optimistic. I'm glad that's the case.

中文：是的，我之前提到过这一点。行业确实处于一种矛盾的状态。我们试图捕捉人们现在在工作中感受到的所有情绪。我很高兴地报告，正如您在这里所看到的，最重要的两种情绪是积极的情绪：好奇和兴奋。这太棒了。这是乐观的。我很高兴情况确实如此。

People are sharing that they're excited about the technology, about the capabilities, about what they're able to achieve. They're feeling curious about what the future might bring and what else they could do as these models and systems continue to evolve. So that's wonderful.

中文：人们表示，他们对这项技术、其能力以及他们能够实现的目标感到兴奋。他们对未来可能会发生什么以及随着这些模型和系统的不断发展他们还可以做些什么感到好奇。这太棒了。

But as you go down this list, you can see that there's this very interesting mix of positive, negative, and neutral emotions. People are also feeling overwhelmed. People are feeling conflicted. People are feeling relieved in certain ways about what AI has taken from them in a good sense, what they've been able to offload to AI.

中文：但当你查看这个列表时，你会发现积极、消极和中性情绪的混合非常有趣。人们也感到不知所措。人们感到很矛盾。人们在某些方面感到宽慰，因为人工智能从某种意义上从他们身上夺走了什么，他们能够将什么转嫁给人工智能。

And then people are feeling tired, burnt out, just working hard and harder as we said, uneasy, anxious, and then hopeful. So as you can see, there is a wide variety of emotions here and it's really tough to figure out what exactly is going on. But one thing I definitely wanted to mention, which Nikhil Singal mentioned in an episode with you, I know he is a friend of the pod and such an incredible leader in product and in general in the tech community. He talks about smiling exhaustion.

中文：然后人们会感到疲倦、精疲力尽，就像我们所说的那样，越来越努力地工作，感到不安、焦虑，然后充满希望。正如你所看到的，这里有各种各样的情绪，很难弄清楚到底发生了什么。但我确实想提一件事，尼基尔·辛格尔（Nikhil Singal）在与您的一集中提到的，我知道他是 Pod 的朋友，也是产品和技术社区中如此令人难以置信的领导者。他谈到微笑的疲惫。

And I just love that term because I think it captures this ambivalence. The old type of emotion, the old type of burnout was just completely grim. It was all about these negative emotions that come from disengagement and exhaustion. Whereas now when Nikhil talks about finding exhaustion, it's about people almost feeling reborn on the one hand. I'm shipping again, I'm building, I'm creating these incredible things with AI. There's never been a more exciting time. But there's no off switch. There's no off switch. And so the tempo is absolutely brutal. The rules keep rewriting themselves every single day. It's a very relentless pace. And so we're smiling through that exhaustion that we're feeling. And I think that captures the ambivalence more than anything really.

中文：我喜欢这个词，因为我认为它抓住了这种矛盾心理。旧式的情感、旧式的倦怠是完全严峻的。这都是由于脱离和疲惫而产生的负面情绪。而现在，当尼基尔谈到寻找疲惫时，一方面是指人们几乎感觉重生。我再次发货，我正在建造，我正在用人工智能创造这些令人难以置信的东西。从来没有比这更激动人心的时刻了。但没有关闭开关。没有关闭开关。所以节奏绝对是残酷的。规则每天都在不断地重写。这是一个非常无情的步伐。所以我们在疲惫中微笑着。我认为这比任何事情都更能体现矛盾心理。

I think it's also good to come back to one of the core points you made earlier that half of people are actually feeling very ... They are working very hard, probably exhausted at times. But they're also just really into ... They're going all in, feeling good, energized about where things are going. So I think it's important to always remember, Kevin, come back to that as we share all these negative elements. There's actually a large group of people that are actually loving this time and doing super well.

中文：我认为回到你之前提出的核心观点之一也很好，一半的人实际上感觉非常……他们工作非常努力，有时可能会精疲力竭。但他们也真的很投入……他们会全力以赴，感觉良好，对事情的发展充满活力。所以我认为重要的是要永远记住，凯文，当我们分享所有这些负面因素时，回到这一点。实际上有一大群人非常热爱这一次并且做得非常好。

There are. I think more than anything, what I would like to highlight here is that we tend to think of things way too often in black and white terms. We see people as either people who are just full of hype or people who are ... Is it doomers? Would that be the right?

中文：有。我认为最重要的是，我想在这里强调的是，我们往往过于频繁地以非黑即白的方式思考事物。我们认为人们要么是充满炒作的人，要么是……这是注定失败的人吗？那是对的吗？

Yeah.

中文：是的。

Or haters or whatever you want to call it. What we're seeing here is that, as always in life, if you ask me, things aren't as simple. Behind that facade, behind the theatrics that Elena Vernon discussed. We all have both the hype person within us and the doomer to a certain extent. And the only difference between us is that we have different amounts of each. But we're not just one or the other. And there really is a ton of ambivalence. And I just want people to know that it's okay. It's okay to be excited and curious, but also feel overwhelmed. It's okay to feel believed and tired. It's okay to feel resentful.

中文：或者仇恨者或者任何你想称之为的东西。我们在这里看到的是，就像生活中一样，如果你问我，事情并不那么简单。在那个外表的背后，在埃琳娜·弗农讨论的戏剧背后。我们内心都有炒作者，在某种程度上也有厄运者。我们之间唯一的区别是我们每个人的数量不同。但我们不只是其中之一。确实存在很多矛盾心理。我只是想让人们知道这没关系。感到兴奋和好奇是正常的，但也会感到不知所措。感到被信任和疲倦是可以的。感到怨恨是可以的。

Even if all in all, you feel positive about the technology. Those emotions can coexist within us. It's very natural. Don't let this narrative that you're either/or to dominate and to convince you that anything's wrong with how you feel. Because really all of these emotions are very understandable given the times we're in.

中文：即使总而言之，您对这项技术感到积极。这些情绪可以在我们内心共存。这是非常自然的。不要让「你非此即彼」的叙述占据主导地位，并让你相信你的感受有问题。因为考虑到我们所处的时代，所有这些情绪实际上都是可以理解的。

Such an important point. I love that you said that.

中文：如此重要的一点。我喜欢你这么说。

Okay. So the next takeaway, what we did hear is when we were looking at this bifurcation that you found, we looked at just which functions are having the best time and worst time? And we had a hint at this earlier. And it turns out there's a couple that are just overall having the worst time right now and feel the least happy. So let's get into that.

中文：好的。因此，下一个要点是，当我们查看您发现的这个分叉时，我们确实听到了，我们查看了哪些函数具有最佳时间和最差时间？我们之前就已经得到过暗示。事实证明，有一对夫妇现在总体上过着最糟糕的时光，感觉最不快乐。那么让我们开始吧。

Yeah, so definitely, definitely. And we saw this last year, by the way, as well. We are seeing that designers and researchers are the most negative. And just to clarify what I mean by that, what you can see in this slide is that when it comes to AI identity shifts, designers and researchers are the highest in feeling either destabilized or diminished. When it comes to emotions like feeling tired, overwhelmed or anxious, researchers and designers lead the pack in a negative way, of course.

中文：是的，所以绝对，绝对。顺便说一句，我们去年也看到了这一点。我们发现设计师和研究人员是最消极的。为了澄清我的意思，你可以在这张幻灯片中看到，当谈到人工智能身份转变时，设计师和研究人员最感到不稳定或被削弱。当然，当谈到感觉疲倦、不知所措或焦虑等情绪时，研究人员和设计师会以消极的方式引导人们。

When it comes to worries about losing one's job to AI, again, researchers and designers are pretty much as high as one can be. And then finally, when it comes to these NPS-like scores of whether people would recommend their role to a friend or to a colleague, researchers and designers are the least likely to recommend entering their role at this point.

中文：当谈到因人工智能而失去工作的担忧时，研究人员和设计师的担忧程度几乎达到了最高点。最后，当涉及到人们是否会向朋友或同事推荐他们的角色的类似 NPS 的分数时，研究人员和设计师此时最不可能建议进入他们的角色。

We talked about this earlier. I don't know how much more there's to add here. Basically again, it's not that this function is in big trouble necessarily. It's this is how people in that function are feeling right now.

中文：我们之前谈过这个。我不知道这里还有多少可以补充的。基本上，这并不是说这个函数一定有大麻烦。这就是该职能部门的人员现在的感受。

I'm not objective because I'm part of the research community and the design community. If I may, I just want to tell people that ... In this community that I truly and honestly believe that there's never been a more important time for our roles to manifest in the products that we build. You've talked about this with many people, Lenny, in previous interviews about concept like taste, about concepts like craft, about concepts like quality. I'm thinking of people like Karri Linear's CEO who talked so beautifully about the importance of quality and how you build products. I'm thinking about people like-

中文：我并不客观，因为我是研究界和设计界的一部分。如果可以的话，我只想告诉人们……在这个社区中，我真诚地相信，对于我们的角色在我们构建的产品中体现出来来说，现在是最重要的时刻。莱尼，在之前的采访中，你已经和很多人谈论过这个问题，比如品味、工艺等概念，以及质量等概念。我想到像 Karri Linear 的首席执行官这样的人，他们精彩地谈论了质量的重要性以及如何构建产品。我在想这样的人——

Katie Dill comes to mind. We had a whole conversation around taste and beauty and about [inaudible 01:03:28]-

中文：我想到了凯蒂·迪尔。我们围绕品味和美丽进行了一次完整的对话，以及[音频不清晰 01:03:28]-

Katie Dill. Recently Jenny Wen who leads design for Claude at Anthropic. And so many other people who talk about the importance of taste of judgment of design.

中文：凯蒂·迪尔.最近，Jenny Wen 在 Anthropic 领导 Claude 的设计。还有很多其他人谈论设计判断品味的重要性。

So I honestly hope that designers and researchers make a comeback when it comes to how they feel about this industry. Because the industry needs them. The industry needs us. And so I hope we see a change next year. And this is the call to all designers and researchers to get in there and do our thing because it's incredibly valuable at this era.

中文：所以我真诚地希望设计师和研究人员能够重新审视他们对这个行业的感受。因为这个行业需要他们。行业需要我们。所以我希望明年我们会看到变化。这是对所有设计师和研究人员的呼吁，让我们参与进来，做我们的事情，因为它在这个时代非常有价值。

Yeah. I've had a few conversations recently about just design. And in particular just why is design not a huge value add and differentiator today knowing AI is just so bad at it? We just had the head of the Codex app on talking about why AI ... Like AI is not good at design. And you could clearly tell AI designed this thing. And you would think this was the moment for design to become such a value add and differentiator for companies, seeing all this AI slop that's being produced. So I'm optimistic that'll emerge as people are like, I'm so sick and tired of all these generic things. I want to actually build something great.

中文：是的。我最近进行了一些关于设计的对话。特别是，为什么在人工智能如此糟糕的情况下，设计在今天却不能带来巨大的附加值和差异化优势呢？我们刚刚与 Codex 应用程序的负责人讨论了为什么人工智能……就像人工智能不擅长设计一样。你可以清楚地看出人工智能设计了这个东西。看到所有这些正在产生的人工智能废品，你可能会认为现在是设计成为公司增值和差异化因素的时刻。所以我很乐观，人们会说，我对所有这些通用的东西感到厌倦了。我想真正创造一些伟大的东西。

Yeah. And moreover, if I recall correctly, you in that conversation talked about how some of the issues around AI doing design are perhaps tractable problems. But some of them are even intractable, I would say. Or definitely much, much harder to solve for. It's still the case that creating incredible, novel, creative experiences, not something that this technology is quite capable of. So we'll see what happens. But I really do hope that the design and research community turn around and change their minds about the industry next year.

中文：是的。此外，如果我没记错的话，你在那次谈话中谈到了围绕人工智能进行设计的一些问题可能是可以处理的问题。但我想说，其中一些甚至是棘手的。或者说解决起来肯定要困难得多。创造令人难以置信的、新颖的、创造性的体验仍然是这种技术所不具备的能力。所以我们会看看会发生什么。但我真的希望明年设计和研究界能够转变并改变对这个行业的看法。

Yeah, man, I can't wait to do next year already. What's it going to be? But if you actually look at the losing my job to AI bucket, there's actually a role that is even more worried about losing their job and I believe that is data analytics. Our shades are kind of very similar to keep the message clear. But that's really interesting, that data analysts basically are the most worried about losing their job.

中文：是的，伙计，我已经等不及明年了。会是什么？但如果你真的看看我因人工智能而失去工作的情况，实际上有一个角色更担心失去工作，我相信那就是数据分析。我们的色调非常相似，以保持信息清晰。但这真的很有趣，数据分析师基本上是最担心失去工作的。

I think we're seeing incredible capabilities come out.

中文：我认为我们正在看到令人难以置信的能力的出现。

That makes sense. Makes sense.

中文：这是有道理的。有道理。

Yeah, with the different models out there to run data analysis. I'm seeing this in the research realm as well. I would suggest that we're also seeing incredible advancements in coding. So I was expecting engineering to be higher in certain places here and it's not. But again, this isn't about the objective reality of how far AI has come in terms of its capabilities doing each of these roles. This is about how people are feeling in these roles and there isn't a one-to-one correlation between those things.

中文：是的，有不同的模型来运行数据分析。我在研究领域也看到了这一点。我建议我们在编码方面也看到了令人难以置信的进步。所以我原以为工程技术在某些地方会更高，但事实并非如此。但同样，这并不是关于人工智能在执行这些角色的能力方面已经取得了多大程度的客观现实。这是关于人们在这些角色中的感受，并且这些事情之间不存在一对一的相关性。

Speaking of that, let's talk about who the happiest people are. Who's doing great?

中文：说到这里，我们来谈谈谁是最幸福的人。谁做得很好？

Oh, yes.

中文：哦是的。

Who's doing best?

中文：谁做得最好？

So the happiest people in tech, this is something that did not change between last year's survey and this year's. It's still founders and people who are working in smaller companies. And I do feel the need to say that when it comes to founders, to your point earlier, not that I know, but being a founder is an incredibly challenging, all encompassing job. And there is a certain selection bias here in the sense that these are people who are currently in the active role of a founder in a startup that is still running. Rather than founders who had to shut down their startup or whatever it might be. So I just want to make that clear around who we're looking at.

中文：因此，对于科技行业最幸福的人来说，这一点在去年的调查和今年的调查中没有改变。仍然是在小公司工作的创始人和人员。我确实觉得有必要说，当谈到创始人时，就你之前的观点而言，我不知道，但作为一名创始人是一项极具挑战性、包罗万象的工作。这里存在一定的选择偏见，因为这些人目前在仍在运营的初创公司中担任创始人的积极角色。而不是创始人不得不关闭他们的初创公司或其他任何可能的公司。所以我只是想澄清一下我们在关注谁。

But yes, when we look at founders and when we look at, in this case, you're looking at company size as well, you can see that whether it's optimism, whether it's burnout, layoff worry, or whether people would recommend their job. You are just seeing these increases or decreases depending on the question. It's very clear that founders are top of nearly every measure. They're 71% optimistic. They're enjoying their jobs the most. They have the lowest burnout, the lowest layoff worry, the most AI excitement. It's a medium-sized effect compared to other effects we saw, but very significant.

中文：但是，是的，当我们观察创始人时，在这种情况下，你也在观察公司规模，你可以看到是否乐观，是否倦怠，裁员担忧，或者人们是否会推荐他们的工作。您只是根据问题看到这些增加或减少。很明显，创始人几乎在所有指标上都名列前茅。他们的乐观态度为 71%。他们最享受自己的工作。他们的倦怠程度最低，对裁员的担忧最低，对人工智能的兴奋度最高。与我们看到的其他影响相比，这是一个中等规模的影响，但非常显着。

And that said, if we talk about founders, even having that ownership and even having that agency has its limits. Many founders are still moderately or at least moderately burnt out, 47% of founders. And as we said earlier, even founders aren't very likely to recommend being a founder to other people right now, which is very interesting.

中文：也就是说，如果我们谈论创始人，即使拥有所有权，甚至拥有该机构也有其局限性。许多创始人仍然处于中度或至少中度倦怠状态，占创始人总数的 47%。正如我们之前所说，即使是创始人现在也不太可能向其他人推荐成为创始人，这非常有趣。

I think it's also important to note there's definitely this ... As you said, this kind of meme of there's never been a better time to build. People may see this and be like, "I got to start a company. It's the best place to be." It may be this moment currently where people feeling most excited about it. A.

中文：我认为同样重要的是要注意，肯定有这个......正如你所说，这种模因从来没有比现在更好的构建时机。人们可能会看到这一点并说：「我必须创办一家公司。这是最好的地方。」或许现在的这个时刻，是人们最为兴奋的时刻。一个。

Nd then as the bubble ... I don't know if it's a bubble. But as things start to get harder, there may be a shift away from that. So far interestingly, we've seen two years in a row, founders are the happiest. But I wonder if that changes, if the market changes, that kind of thing. So this isn't saying you're going to be happy if you become a founder. But it is really interesting that two years in a row of all of the ... Like the most clear ... One of the clearest takeaways is just founders seem to be happiest across every dimension.

中文：然后作为泡沫......我不知道这是否是泡沫。但随着事情开始变得更加困难，情况可能会发生转变。有趣的是，到目前为止，我们已经连续两年看到创始人是最幸福的。但我想知道这种情况是否会改变，如果市场发生变化，诸如此类的事情。因此，这并不是说如果您成为创始人就会感到高兴。但真正有趣的是，连续两年……最明显的……最明显的结论之一是，创始人似乎在各个方面都是最快乐的。

Yeah. And then company size as well. Again, optimism goes down. If you're working for a larger company, you get more burnt out if you're working for a larger company. You're more worried about layoffs if you're working for a larger company. And you're less likely to recommend your role if you're working for a larger company. So that also remained consistent.

中文：是的。然后是公司规模。乐观情绪再次下降。如果你在一家更大的公司工作，你会更加疲惫不堪。如果您在一家大公司工作，您会更担心裁员。如果你在一家大公司工作，你就不太可能推荐你的职位。所以这也保持一致。

And if we look just at burnout specifically, then you can see very clearly here that burnout climbs in very significant ways in between working for a small 1 to 10 person startup and working for a 5,000 or 10,000 person enterprise company.

中文：如果我们专门关注职业倦怠，那么您可以在这里非常清楚地看到，在为 1 到 10 人的小型初创公司工作和为 5,000 或 10,000 人的企业工作之间，职业倦怠以非常显着的方式攀升。

It's so wild. It's wild how linear this is. There's no bump. And then those two at the end, as you point out here in the chart, they're statistically-

中文：太狂野了。这是多么线性的疯狂。没有凹凸。然后最后的那两个，正如您在图表中指出的那样，它们是统计上的-

It's within margin of error.

中文：都在误差范围之内。

Yeah.

中文：是的。

Yeah, yeah.

中文：是啊是啊。

But it's like wild here just only goes up. There's not a sweet spot and then it comes down again. And then if you go back to the previous chart, exactly the same thing. It's just very linear, everything goes up and gets worse as your company size grows. That's wild.

中文：但这里就像狂野一样，只会上升。没有最佳位置，然后又下降。然后，如果您回到上一张图表，就会发现完全相同的情况。这是非常线性的，随着公司规模的扩大，一切都会上升并变得更糟。那太疯狂了。

Absolutely. I would say one thing to highlight here, if you look at burnout, for example, is that ... Even the lowest is still fairly high. So I would say people are feeling somewhat less burnt out, somewhat healthier working for a startup. But I would view these levels of burnout, of worry as worrisome. I'm worried about the level of worry right now in tech. It is not a good vibe.

中文：绝对地。我想在这里强调一件事，例如，如果你看看倦怠，那就是......即使是最低的仍然相当高。所以我想说，在初创公司工作，人们感觉不那么疲惫，更加健康。但我认为这种程度的倦怠和担忧是令人担忧的。我对科技领域目前的担忧程度感到担忧。这不是一个好的氛围。

You mentioned how we met a decade ago with Airbnb. I do feel like the vibe was very different then in tech. So I am a bit concerned about the numbers that we're seeing here. But yes, from a relative sense, a relative point of view, perhaps one should consider doing a shift and starting your own thing or working for a smaller company for sure.

中文：您提到我们十年前是如何认识 Airbnb 的。我确实觉得科技领域的氛围非常不同。所以我对我们在这里看到的数字有点担心。但是，是的，从相对意义上、相对的角度来看，也许人们应该考虑换个班，开始自己的事业，或者肯定为一家小公司工作。

Yeah, exactly. And that'll be one of the takeaways.

中文：是的，完全正确。这将是要点之一。

You know what would be awesome? Is if we do one of these for non-tech, I'm really curious, just like you think people are scared and worried in tech. I'm so curious how that would compare to say the blue collar folks or other functions. I don't know if we have the audience to do that, but that'd be really interesting.

中文：你知道什么会很棒吗？如果我们为非技术领域做其中一项，我真的很好奇，就像你认为人们对技术感到害怕和担忧一样。我很好奇这与蓝领人士或其他职能部门相比如何。我不知道我们是否有观众这样做，但这真的很有趣。

I mean, I think my HVAC technician is feeling pretty great about his career right now burning hot in Florida. Everyone needs air conditioning. That's not going to change anytime soon.

中文：我的意思是，我认为我的暖通空调技术人员对他目前在佛罗里达州的职业生涯感觉非常好。每个人都需要空调。这不会很快改变。

So that could be one of our takeaways. We should get into HVAC to start a company.

中文：这可能是我们的收获之一。我们应该进入暖通空调领域来创办一家公司。

We should do that.

中文：我们应该这样做。

Start a plumbing business.

中文：开始做管道生意。

For sure.

中文：一定。

Oh, man.

中文：哦，伙计。

For sure.

中文：一定。

Okay. So what I love about doing the survey again is we're starting to find things that are consistently true. And the next takeaway is another really good example that we saw last year too around managers. Let's get into that.

中文：好的。因此，我喜欢再次进行调查的原因是我们开始发现始终正确的事情。下一个要点是我们去年在经理人身上看到的另一个非常好的例子。让我们开始吧。

Yeah. So I mean, perhaps people are aware of this. Managers matter a ton. Who your manager is probably matters more than most other characteristics of your role. And we found this very explicitly last year and this year again, manager effectiveness. So we basically ask people, how effective is your manager? How would you rate your manager?

中文：是的。所以我的意思是，也许人们意识到了这一点。经理非常重要。你的经理是谁可能比你的角色的大多数其他特征更重要。我们去年和今年都非常明确地发现了这一点，即经理的有效性。所以我们基本上会问人们，你的经理的效率如何？您如何评价您的经理？

And what you can see here is that the more effective your manager is, the less burnt out you feel and the more you enjoy your job. And this is a massive, massive effect that we're seeing. So if you have an extremely effective manager, for example, you're reporting around 65% higher job enjoyment and dramatically lower burnout. The problem is, is the supply. Only about 25% of the sample rates their manager as highly effective. And 36% of the sample rated their managers as ineffective. Which by the way is a very small change from last year.

中文：从这里你可以看到，你的经理越高效，你的倦怠感就越少，你就越喜欢你的工作。这是我们所看到的巨大影响。例如，如果您有一位极其高效的经理，您的工作乐趣会提高约 65%，职业倦怠也会大幅降低。问题是，是供应。只有大约 25% 的样本认为他们的经理非常高效。 36% 的样本认为他们的经理效率低下。顺便说一句，这与去年相比变化很小。

So we are seeing managers berated not so well. And at the same time, we're seeing that when managers are effective, which is clearly not often enough. The impact that has on people's enjoyment, burnout and other aspects as well is incredible.

中文：所以我们看到经理们受到的斥责并不那么好。与此同时，我们看到，当管理者有效时，这显然还不够。它对人们的享受、倦怠和其他方面的影响也是令人难以置信的。

That's wild. I think we're adding new insight into the world here, just finding this. I've never seen this before, just how impactful a manager is. That we always hear anecdotes, we always hear people don't leave jobs, they leave their manager. But this is wild just how much that impacts you. And clearly one of the takeaways might be go ... If you're having a bad time, find a better manager. As you said, easier said than done.

中文：那太疯狂了。我认为我们正在在这里增加对世界的新见解，只是发现了这一点。我以前从未见过，经理的影响力有多大。我们总是听到轶事，我们总是听到人们不是离开工作，而是离开他们的经理。但这对你的影响有多大，真是太疯狂了。显然，其中一个要点可能是……如果你过得不好，那就找一个更好的经理。正如你所说，说起来容易做起来难。

Yeah, but there's a couple of things here I want to also note before we move on. First of all, we are in the era of the great flattening. We're in the era of founder mode. People have more direct reports now than ever before. We're trying to keep things as flat as possible and remove hierarchy. I'm concerned about this. I think I'm-

中文：是的，但在我们继续之前，我还想注意一些事情。首先，我们正处于大扁平化时代。我们正处于创始人模式的时代。人们现在比以往任何时候都有更多的直接报告。我们正在努力使事情尽可能平坦并消除层次结构。我很担心这个。我想我是——

... as possible and remove hierarchy. I'm concerned about this. I think obviously there are good arguments for flatness and lack of hierarchy, but I am curious to see where this goes given the importance of who your manager is on your wellbeing.

中文：...尽可能并消除层次结构。我很担心这个。我认为显然对于扁平化和缺乏等级制度有很好的论据，但考虑到你的经理是谁对你的福祉的重要性，我很好奇这会走向何方。

And then the second thing is, we talked earlier about being overworked, about this squeeze that AI has on us. Who's the person more than anyone else who manages that squeeze? It's your manager, right? It's your manager who protects you. It's your manager who in many ways almost dictates how much you may be overworked or not. And so yeah, this matters more than ever before. And I'm definitely concerned that some of the negative phenomenon we're seeing are a function of what we're doing to managers in tech and how we're building out our organizations.

中文：第二件事是，我们之前谈到了过度劳累，以及人工智能对我们造成的压力。谁是最能应对这种挤压的人？是你的经理吧？保护你的是你的经理。在很多方面，你的经理几乎决定了你是否可以过度工作。所以，是的，这比以往任何时候都更重要。我绝对担心我们看到的一些负面现象是我们对技术经理所做的事情以及我们如何构建我们的组织的结果。

Such an interesting point. Whether we do it now or next time, just looking at these metrics for managers, how much more burned out are they? How much less happy and optimistic are they, would be really interesting.

中文：这是一个有趣的观点。无论我们现在还是下次，只要看看管理者的这些指标，他们的倦怠程度有多高？他们的快乐和乐观程度有多少，这真的很有趣。

There's a couple of notes here in the actual post that I want to highlight that I thought are really interesting. One is just core takeaway here is the biggest lever you have to increase retention in your company is improve your managers, connect with people with better managers basically. So interesting. That's a thing you can do. Obviously, easier said than done, but that's the biggest lever of things you can change. And then the other thing you noted is the worst rated managers cluster in data/analytics and design, poor design.

中文：在实际的帖子中，我想强调一些我认为非常有趣的注释。这里的一个核心要点是，提高公司保留率的最大杠杆是提高你的经理，基本上与拥有更好经理的人建立联系。太有趣了。这是你可以做的事情。显然，说起来容易做起来难，但这是你可以改变的最大杠杆。然后你注意到的另一件事是数据/分析和设计方面评价最差的经理集群，糟糕的设计。

Yes. And I'm not sure there's a clear explanation for that. I think one possible explanation is that, again, managers are just people, too. And so, design managers and data and analytic managers are in design and in analytics. They are suffering clearly based on what we saw. And I think it's hard to separate how you feel in tech from your job as a manager. It's hard not to put some of your negative energy onto your team and the people you work with.

中文：是的。我不确定对此有明确的解释。我认为一种可能的解释是，管理者也是人。因此，设计经理以及数据和分析经理既从事设计又从事分析。根据我们所看到的情况，他们显然正在遭受痛苦。我认为很难将你对科技的感受与你作为经理的工作分开。很难不把一些负面能量施加到你的团队和与你一起工作的人身上。

And so, I have a lot of empathy for design managers, research managers, data and analytics managers, and other managers in tech who are having a hard time right now and they're not feeling energized. And unfortunately, some of that is being pushed onto their direct reports.

中文：因此，我非常同情设计经理、研究经理、数据和分析经理以及其他技术经理，他们现在正经历着困难，而且感觉没有活力。不幸的是，其中一些被推给了他们的直接报告。

[inaudible 01:17:48] yeah.

中文：[听不清 01:17:48] 是的。

And then, I very much appreciate, in some of the companies I've worked for, having the opportunity to go through manager training, which is something that's still all too rare I feel within organizations. If you are listening to this and you are a leader in an organization, if you're C-suite at a company, please invest more in your managers. And if you're looking for a job right now, consider carefully who your manager might be. Because probably nothing will have more impact on your wellbeing than who that person ends up being.

中文：然后，我非常感激，在我工作过的一些公司中，有机会接受经理培训，我觉得这在组织中仍然是非常罕见的。如果你正在听这个，并且你是一个组织的领导者，如果你是一家公司的最高管理层，请对你的经理进行更多投资。如果您现在正在找工作，请仔细考虑您的经理可能是谁。因为可能没有什么比这个人最终成为什么样的人更能影响你的幸福了。

And to build on how difficult things are for companies right now, the level of poaching and offers thrown out at the best people, just imagine how sucky it is to find a great manager, train people to become awesome managers, and then they get-

中文：考虑到目前公司面临的困难、挖角的程度以及向最优秀人才抛出的 offer，想象一下找到一位优秀的经理、培训人们成为出色的经理是多么糟糕，然后他们就会——

Only to lose them.

中文：只是为了失去他们。

Only to lose them to the labs, people with infinite money. So it's just extra hard, which is a good segue to our final takeaway, which is a really good summary of just what people are feeling right now.

中文：只是把他们输给了实验室，那些拥有无限金钱的人。所以这非常困难，这是我们最后的结论的一个很好的延续，这是对人们现在感受的一个很好的总结。

Yeah, it is the wildest it's ever been. We asked people to describe the state of the tech industry right now. We got thousands of responses. These were essentially open-ended responses, and we just clustered those descriptions into this word cloud. I still love word cloud. Some researchers are sort of anti-word cloud.

中文：是的，这是有史以来最疯狂的一次。我们请人们描述一下科技行业目前的状况。我们收到了数千条回复。这些本质上是开放式的回答，我们只是将这些描述聚集到这个词云中。我仍然喜欢词云。一些研究人员有点反对词云。

No, this is great.

中文：不，这太棒了。

I'm not going to apologize for the word cloud.

中文：我不会为云这个词道歉。

No, this is amazing. It's like such a clear... Look at this. Just look at this. This is exactly what it feels like.

中文：不，这太神奇了。就像是这样清晰的......看看这个。看看这个。这正是它的感觉。

Yeah, we're seeing change. We're seeing chaos. We're seeing speed. We're seeing excitement, flux, hype, a lack of stability, a potential bubble, but also crazy opportunities. Everything's evolving. Everything's unstable. It comes with costs. It's better. It's worse. It's huge. It's confusing. All smushed together into a more chaotic industry than it's ever been. I don't understand anything about baseball, or maybe it's cricket, but we got this quote. Do you understand baseball? Hopefully if you're watching, you understand these things. But we got this quote, "We're in the second inning of a massive shift. No one knows how it will end, but all you can do is keep taking at bats." Is that a cricket thing? A baseball? I don't know.

中文：是的，我们正在看到变化。我们看到一片混乱。我们看到了速度。我们看到了兴奋、变化、炒作、缺乏稳定性、潜在的泡沫，但也看到了疯狂的机会。一切都在发展。一切都不稳定。它是有成本的。好多了。情况更糟。它是巨大的。这很令人困惑。所有这些都混在一起，形成了一个比以往更加混乱的行业。我对棒球一无所知，或者也许是板球，但我们得到了这句话。你懂棒球吗？希望如果您正在观看，您会理解这些事情。但我们得到了这句话，「我们正处于巨大转变的第二局。没有人知道它会如何结束，但你所能做的就是继续击球。」这是板球的事情吗？棒球？我不知道。

No, that's baseball. I don't know how many innings. I don't know if there's innings in cricket, but it's definitely baseball. It works for baseball at least. Yeah. Baseball is just saying keep trying, just keep taking shots. Shots on goal [inaudible 01:20:35] metaphors.

中文：不，那是棒球。不知道第几局了我不知道板球是否有局数，但肯定是棒球。它至少适用于棒球。是的。棒球只是说不断尝试，不断投篮。射门 [听不清 01:20:35] 隐喻。

Yeah. So many good quotes. Another one I see here, which was a good one, "Tech is manic. Half out of touch, clinging to the bandwagon, pouring into the over hype. The other half are exhausted by the first half." That came from a senior PM.

中文：是的。这么多好的名言。我在这里看到的另一则很好，「科技是疯狂的。一半脱离现实，紧随潮流，陷入过度炒作。另一半被上半场精疲力尽。」这是一位高级总理的话。

Yeah, fascinating stuff. When we look at this overall, it's crazy how we see, again, this bifurcation that 37% of the words used, when we ran sentiment analysis, were positive. 37% were negative, and the remaining 26% or so were neutral, basically an even split. We're all seeing the same thing, but half of us find it thrilling. The other half find it terrifying. I was rather taken aback when I saw these data. It's pretty wild how equally divided we are.

中文：是的，令人着迷的东西。当我们从整体上看时，我们再次看到这种分歧，这真是太疯狂了：当我们进行情绪分析时，所使用的单词中有 37% 是积极的。 37%是负面的，剩下 26%左右是中立的，基本上是平分秋色。我们都看到同样的事情，但我们中有一半人觉得这令人兴奋。另一半则觉得很可怕。当我看到这些数据时，我感到很惊讶。我们的分歧如此之大，真是太疯狂了。

Yeah, man. And I think you used this quote earlier that, "This is the most normal it's ever going to be."

中文：是的，伙计。我想你之前引用过这句话，「这是有史以来最正常的情况。」

I don't know. The prophecy was given to the fools, so I'm not going to try and be a prophet. But yes, I doubt it's going to get more normal and normalized statistically than this. So we'll wait and see, I guess.

中文：我不知道。预言是给傻瓜的，所以我不会尝试成为一名先知。但是，是的，我怀疑它会变得比这更正常和标准化的统计数据。所以我想我们会拭目以待。

Yeah. If we zoom out, we're living through history right now, the amount of change. And this is unprecedented. The industrial revolution's always the metaphor people use, which is accurate, maybe crazy or maybe not, but that's the interesting part. What an interesting time to be living through.

中文：是的。如果我们缩小视野，我们现在正经历着历史，经历着巨大的变化。这是前所未有的。工业革命一直是人们使用的比喻，这个比喻很准确，也许疯狂，也许不疯狂，但这就是有趣的部分。经历着多么有趣的时光啊。

Elon had this really interesting way of describing it, "We're definitely living in a simulation if we are alive right now when we're about to start building data centers in space, and AIs are going to be as smart as human brains."

中文：埃隆用一种非常有趣的方式来描述它，「如果我们现在还活着，当我们即将开始在太空中建立数据中心时，我们肯定生活在模拟中，人工智能将像人类大脑一样聪明。」

What are the chances you are alive at that moment? Which is probably, okay, maybe some higher intelligence is simulating the most interesting time in history. I don't know if that's good or bad, but-

中文：那一刻你还活着的机会有多大？这可能是，好吧，也许一些更高的智能正在模拟历史上最有趣的时刻。我不知道这是好是坏，但是——

Listen, I have lots of respect for Elon. People like Elon have chosen to focus on the universe and what's out there and the laws that govern the universe and that's their focus. I became a psychologist by academic training at least because my focus has always been on people. And if I had to share a closing thought to wrap up all of this research, I would say that having the most advanced AI and the access to the best models in the world won't determine whether your organization succeeds. We have to remember that underlying all of this stuff are people. People, we as people are going through the most massive shift and changes that we ever have in our lives. And it's people who are feeling excited and exhausted and hopeful and scared often all at once. And we're all taking part in crafting and building this future that we hope still has a place for us in a few years.

中文：听着，我非常尊重埃隆。像埃隆这样的人选择关注宇宙以及那里的事物以及统治宇宙的法则，这就是他们的焦点。我通过学术培训成为一名心理学家，至少是因为我的关注点一直是人。如果我必须分享一个总结性的想法来总结所有这些研究，我会说拥有最先进的人工智能和世界上最好的模型并不能决定你的组织是否成功。我们必须记住，所有这些东西的背后都是人。人们，我们作为人们正在经历我们生活中最巨大的转变和变化。人们常常同时感到兴奋、疲惫、希望和恐惧。我们都在参与打造和建设这个未来，我们希望几年后我们仍能占有一席之地。

And so, I keep that in mind all the time. It's people driving these innovations. It's incredible people building these technologies. My focus will always be on the people. And I hope that if you're out there watching this, you take care of yourself, you touch grass, you take a moment to reflect on what you want for yourself in your career. And you remember again that it's fine to feel all of the emotions, and you should just do whatever works for you to get through this wild period in the tech industry.

中文：因此，我一直牢记这一点。是人推动了这些创新。人们创造这些技术真是令人难以置信。我的关注点将始终放在人民身上。我希望，如果你在场观看这个节目，请照顾好自己，触摸草地，花点时间思考一下自己在职业生涯中想要什么。你再次记住，感受到所有的情绪是很好的，你应该做任何对你有用的事情来度过科技行业的这段疯狂时期。

So kind of building on that, you spend a lot of time thinking through the results and what people can actually do with this data. Because it's one thing to just report, "Here's what people are feeling." Okay, cool.

中文：在此基础上，您花费大量时间思考结果以及人们实际上可以利用这些数据做什么。因为仅仅报告「这就是人们的感受」是一回事。好吧，酷。

What should people do? So there's a really important section at the end of the report that we should spend a little time on, which is just where do we go from here? What does this tell us we should be doing if we could do anything to move ourselves basically into a happier place?

中文：人们应该做什么？因此，报告末尾有一个非常重要的部分，我们应该花一些时间来讨论，这就是我们下一步该何去何从？如果我们可以采取任何措施让自己基本上进入一个更快乐的境地，这告诉我们我们应该做什么？

So starting with, if you're an employee, especially if you're on IC working at a company, one thing we saw people who feel amplified and energized reporting is that they actually went deep on specific tasks and specific jobs to be done rather than trying to be the generalist who does everything. I think it's the people who try to be or lean too much into being a generalist who end up getting severely burnt out, right?

中文：因此，首先，如果你是一名员工，尤其是在公司的 IC 部门工作，我们看到那些感觉被放大和充满活力的报告的人是，他们实际上深入研究要完成的特定任务和特定工作，而不是试图成为包揽一切的通才。我认为那些试图成为或过于倾向于成为多面手的人最终会严重倦怠，对吗？

And so, I just want to caution people a little bit away from the narratives that you need to be a generalist at this point and just do all of the things and completely ignore the core parts of your role. I think that's a bad idea and based on what people are reporting, it's not going to end up with you at least feeling good.

中文：因此，我只是想提醒人们远离这样的叙述：此时你需要成为一名通才，只做所有的事情，完全忽略你角色的核心部分。我认为这是一个坏主意，根据人们的报道，这至少不会让你感觉良好。

I also would love for people to watch out for this squeeze, being overworked for the same pay. We deserve better. We've linked in the article to a burnout test. Take the test, see where you're at on the burnout scale. And then based on that, reflect on where you are, talk to your manager, scope out your work, again, recalibrate, realign with your manager on your work and make sure that you're not being squeezed out of being positive about your role and being successful in your role.

中文：我也希望人们能够留意这种挤压，因为在同样的工资下过度工作。我们值得更好。我们在文章中链接了倦怠测试。参加测试，看看你在倦怠量表上处于什么位置。然后在此基础上，反思你的处境，与你的经理交谈，确定你的工作范围，再次重新调整，与你的经理就你的工作重新协调，并确保你不会因为对自己的角色保持积极态度并在自己的角色中取得成功而受到影响。

As you're going through this list, let me just make sure people fully understand the frame that we're... Because you made these two buckets basically. Things you can do based on this result. One is just if you're an employee, I think you have five pieces of advice. If you're a company, you have five-ish pieces of advice. So just to be super clear, the first one is just pick a couple of things you want AI to be useful for and just go deep on those couple things, versus trying to spread it all around and AI seems to be doing everything for you. Pick a couple things that you're most excited about and then just go really deep there. The other is what you said, just watch the squeeze. Watch you being squeezed and talk to your manager about, "Hey, my scope's increased, nothing changed comp-wise," that kind of thing.

中文：当你浏览这个列表时，让我确保人们完全理解我们的框架......因为你基本上制作了这两个桶。您可以根据此结果做一些事情。一是如果你是一名员工，我认为你有五条建议。如果你是一家公司，你有五条左右的建议。因此，要非常明确的是，第一个就是选择一些你希望人工智能有用的事情，然后深入研究这几件事，而不是试图将其传播到各处，而人工智能似乎正在为你做一切。选择一些你最兴奋的事情，然后深入研究。其他的就是你说的，看挤就行了。看着你被挤压，然后和你的经理谈论，「嘿，我的范围扩大了，在薪酬方面没有任何改变」之类的事情。

Absolutely. And then speak with managers. Again, the third point is that your manager clearly matters more than pretty much anything else when it comes to how you feel about work. Protect that relationship, invest in that relationship, build up good communication lines with your manager, learn to manage up better. That investment in that relationship will pay off greatly in terms of how you feel.

中文：绝对地。然后与经理交谈。同样，第三点是，当谈到你对工作的感受时，你的经理显然比其他任何事情都重要。保护这种关系，投资于这种关系，与你的经理建立良好的沟通渠道，学会更好地管理。对这段关系的投资将会在你的感受方面得到巨大的回报。

And then beyond that, first of all, if you want to try out working for a smaller company or starting your own company, clearly there are some advantages to that, and so it might be worth considering. And then, if you're earlier in your career and you feel like the rungs of the ladder are sort of disappearing, and it's becoming harder to climb that ladder, I'm a huge believer in mentorship and the value of mentorship. Strong mentorship is still an incredibly effective thing. Seek the teams, seek the managers, seek the people who are willing to invest in developing you. It's incredibly valuable, especially in this era. So, that's what we have for employees.

中文：除此之外，首先，如果您想尝试在一家小公司工作或创办自己的公司，显然这有一些优势，因此可能值得考虑。然后，如果你处于职业生涯的早期，并且感觉阶梯的梯级正在消失，并且攀登阶梯变得越来越困难，那么我非常相信导师制和导师制的价值。强有力的指导仍然是一件非常有效的事情。寻找团队，寻找经理，寻找愿意投资发展你的人。这是非常有价值的，尤其是在这个时代。这就是我们为员工提供的。

And then, if you're leading a team, if you're leading a company, then again, as we mentioned before, invest in your managers. It's probably some of the best money you'll ever spend. It's sad to me that only a quarter of our sample, and perhaps tech workers in general, rate their manager as highly effective. That to me is a major, major red flag. It's a major issue in tech. And so, if you want to improve burnout, if you want to elevate enjoyment, if you want to improve retention with these crazy job offers flying around from AI labs, you have to invest in your managers.

中文：然后，如果你领导一个团队，如果你领导一家公司，那么，正如我们之前提到的，投资于你的经理。这可能是您花过的最划算的一笔钱。让我感到遗憾的是，我们的样本中只有四分之一的人，也许还有一般的技术人员，认为他们的经理非常高效。对我来说，这是一个非常非常大的危险信号。这是技术领域的一个重大问题。因此，如果你想改善倦怠，如果你想提升乐趣，如果你想通过人工智能实验室飞来飞去的这些疯狂的工作机会来提高保留率，你必须投资于你的经理。

And then otherwise, manage that squeeze. People are feeling how AI is raising bars in ways that aren't sustainable. So you have to figure out the right level of expectations and the right level of productivity. Don't let that bottom rung of the ladder rot. Make sure that you're doing what you need to for entry level people to advance, because those early career people are also probably some of the most AI native people you can find. They find it very natural to use these technologies in some ways more so than people who have been too used to previous paradigms.

中文：否则，应对挤压。人们感觉到人工智能正在以不可持续的方式提高标准。因此，您必须弄清楚正确的期望水平和正确的生产力水平。不要让梯子的最底层腐烂。确保你正在做入门级人员晋升所需的事情，因为这些早期职业人员也可能是你能找到的最懂人工智能的人。他们发现在某些方面使用这些技术比那些太习惯以前范式的人更自然。

And then, selfishly, I hope that leaders pay a little bit more attention to design and research and other roles who are feeling more negative than other roles. And keep in mind that this technology, AI, is lifting some people and destabilizing others, and you really have to pay attention to that. We are clearly not experiencing this technology in the same way.

中文：然后，自私地，我希望领导者多关注设计和研究以及其他比其他角色更消极的角色。请记住，人工智能这项技术正在提升一些人的地位，并破坏另一些人的稳定，你确实必须注意这一点。我们显然没有以同样的方式体验这项技术。

Amazing takeaways. I want to double down on that burnout survey that you mentioned. We're going to link to it in the show notes. But actually people have said it sounds dumb and why am I going to do that? I've definitely gone through periods of burnout and wasn't aware that that was happening. And it's so helpful to like, "Oh, wow, this is not normal what I'm feeling right now."

中文：惊人的外卖。我想加倍关注你提到的倦怠调查。我们将在演出笔记中链接到它。但实际上人们说这听起来很愚蠢，为什么我要这么做呢？我确实经历过倦怠期，但没有意识到这种情况正在发生。喜欢「哦，哇，我现在的感觉不正常」是很有帮助的。

And knowing this, that you're okay, you're extremely burnt out right now. Then you can decide what you want to do with that information. Often, it's talk to a coach, talk to your manager, take some time off if you can But just knowing that is actually really powerful. And you made this really great quiz based on actual science and research that we'll link to.

中文：知道你没事，你现在已经精疲力尽了。然后您可以决定如何处理该信息。通常，这就是与教练交谈，与您的经理交谈，如果可以的话请休息一段时间，但只要知道这一点实际上就非常强大。您根据我们将链接到的实际科学和研究做了这个非常棒的测验。

100%.

中文：100%。

Awesome. Now, is there anything else that we haven't talked about? Anything else you want to leave folks with? We've covered a lot, so I don't know if there's anything left. We'll obviously link them to the report where they can go deeper. We're also going to do a follow-up based on what comes out of this conversation, what we see in the comments, because this is a lot of information and a lot of scary stuff, some optimistic stuff. We're not going to have answers to everything, but we're planning to do a follow-up of just here's what came up. Let's see if we can find any answers. But other than that, is there anything else that you want to share?

中文：惊人的。现在，还有什么我们还没有讨论过的吗？你还有什么想留给大家的吗？说了这么多，不知道还有没有剩下的。我们显然会将它们链接到报告，以便他们可以更深入地了解。我们还将根据这次对话的结果以及我们在评论中看到的内容进行后续行动，因为这是很多信息和很多可怕的东西，一些乐观的东西。我们不会得到所有问题的答案，但我们计划对所发生的事情进行跟进。让我们看看是否能找到答案。但除此之外，您还有什么想分享的吗？

There's one interesting phenomenon that I wanted to mention. We're starting to see this AI guilt, and in particular, amongst people who are early in their career in the sense that people who are early in their career feel like leveraging this technology is a little bit like cheating in a sense. And that guilt declines with seniority. And in particular, we're seeing people in actually product marketing and data and analytics, which showed up previously in a couple of places, feeling the most guilt. This is related to the well-known and well-established imposter phenomenon, "I'm not good enough." Competent people feeling like their success isn't really theirs. It's someone else's. Except this time, we're putting that on AI, on a technology, rather than other people.

中文：我想提一个有趣的现象。我们开始看到这种人工智能的负罪感，特别是在职业生涯早期的人中，因为职业生涯早期的人觉得利用这项技术在某种意义上有点像作弊。而且这种愧疚感会随着资历的增加而减弱。特别是，我们看到实际上从事产品营销、数据和分析的人们感到最内疚，这些人之前曾在几个地方出现过。这与众所周知且根深蒂固的冒名顶替现象「我不够好」有关。有能力的人感觉他们的成功并不是真正属于他们自己的。这是别人的。只不过这一次，我们把它放在人工智能、技术上，而不是其他人身上。

I would say to all of you who might be feeling that guilt, AI is an incredible technology. Leverage it, learn how to leverage it. I doubt it's going away. It's the worst it's ever going to be today. It's only getting better. So there's no reason to feel guilty about leveraging it, on the contrary. I think inevitably we all are all the time.

中文：我想对所有可能感到内疚的人说，人工智能是一项令人难以置信的技术。利用它，学习如何利用它。我怀疑它会消失。今天是有史以来最糟糕的情况。情况只会变得更好。因此，相反，没有理由对利用它感到内疚。我认为我们所有人都不可避免地一直如此。

Well, to close [inaudible 01:33:33] I just want to appreciate you. It's incredible the work that you've done here and the work that we've done together over the many surveys. It's like a side thing you do with me, running, I don't know, one of the biggest surveys out there around this stuff, maybe the biggest, analyzing it, writing it so beautifully. So I think this is a really unique and special report and I appreciate you for doing this with me. I'm really happy about where this all goes and just what we're doing for folks.

中文：好吧，结束了 [听不清 01:33:33] 我只是想感谢你。你们在这里所做的工作以及我们在许多调查中共同完成的工作令人难以置信。这就像你和我一起做的一件副业，运行，我不知道，关于这个东西的最大的调查之一，也许是最大的，分析它，写得如此漂亮。所以我认为这是一份非常独特和特别的报告，我感谢您与我一起做这个。我对这一切的进展以及我们为人们所做的事情感到非常高兴。

Thank you so, so much.

中文：非常非常感谢。

Well, with that, Noam, where can people find you online if they want to reach out, maybe follow-up questions? And how can listeners be useful to you?

中文：好吧，诺姆，如果人们想要联系您，或者后续问题，可以在哪里找到您？听众如何对你有用？

Yeah, so the best places to find me are on LinkedIn. I'd love to connect with anyone who wants to connect on LinkedIn. Or within Lenny's community, within your Slack. I hang out there and always happy to talk to people within the community. So please catch me on LinkedIn or on Slack. That would be best.

中文：是的，所以找到我的最佳地点是 LinkedIn。我很乐意与任何想在 LinkedIn 上建立联系的人建立联系。或者在 Lenny 的社区内，在您的 Slack 内。我在那里闲逛，总是很乐意与社区内的人们交谈。请在 LinkedIn 或 Slack 上关注我。那最好了。

How can listeners be useful to you, Noam?

中文：诺姆，听众如何对你有用？

If you are watching this, what I would like to convey is that I hope this research has been helpful to you. And more than anything, I hope that you consider participating in a future research projects of ours. I'm really, really glad that we get to do these things, Lenny. And I want to give all of you watching the opportunity to learn more about what's going on in tech, how you can be better at your job, how you can feel better about your job and all things in between.

中文：如果您正在观看此内容，我想传达的是，我希望这项研究对您有所帮助。最重要的是，我希望您考虑参与我们未来的研究项目。我真的非常非常高兴我们能做这些事情，莱尼。我想让所有观看的人有机会更多地了解科技领域正在发生的事情，如何更好地完成工作，如何对自己的工作感觉更好以及介于两者之间的所有事情。

We plan to continue conducting both quick polls of the community, in depth, longer form surveys, interviews, all sorts of things. And so if you get a message, an email, a Slack about a research project, please participate. Would love to hear your voices, hear your perspectives, and then share that back with the community and hopefully it makes us all better at our jobs, and also feel better about our jobs.

中文：我们计划继续对社区进行快速民意调查、深入、较长形式的调查、访谈等各种活动。因此，如果您收到有关研究项目的消息、电子邮件、Slack，请参与。希望听到您的声音，听到您的观点，然后与社区分享，希望这能让我们所有人更好地完成工作，并对我们的工作感觉更好。

Because I do hope that even though much of this was a little bit tough and perhaps negative, I too, Lenny, am an eternal optimist. I'm a techno optimist. I believe this is going in good directions, and I want to make sure we capture that accurately. So yeah, please participate. We'd love to see you in our next research project.

中文：因为我确实希望，尽管这其中的大部分内容有点艰难，甚至可能是消极的，但我，莱尼，也是一个永远的乐观主义者。我是一个技术乐观主义者。我相信这正朝着好的方向发展，我想确保我们准确地捕捉到这一点。所以，是的，请参加。我们很高兴在我们的下一个研究项目中见到您。

Excellent ask. With that, Noam, thank you so much for being here.

中文：很好问。诺姆，非常感谢你来到这里。

Thanks a bunch.

中文：非常感谢。

Thank you so much for listening. If you found this valuable, you can subscribe to the show on Apple Podcast, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app. Also, please consider giving us a rating or leaving a review as that really helps other listeners find the podcast. You can find all past episodes or learn more about the show at LennysPodcast.com. See you in the next episode.

中文：非常感谢您的聆听。如果您发现这很有价值，您可以在 Apple Podcast、Spotify 或您最喜欢的播客应用程序上订阅该节目。另外，请考虑给我们评分或留下评论，因为这确实有助于其他听众找到播客。您可以在 LennysPodcast.com 上找到所有过去的剧集或了解有关该节目的更多信息。下一集见。